I think I’ve settled on the latter. Disagreement is maybe best communicated by the absence of an upvote? And downvotes work best when they signal something that is just off base, and while not reportable, is not appreciated at a broad cultural level.
I think voting based on quality of content (and NOT whether you agree with it) is the best approach for healthy discussions. If somebody is a low effort troll, then for sure downvote (and maybe even consider reporting).
OTOH, if somebody makes a well written and thoughtful post about why Totoro is the best Ghibli movie ever, and meanwhile you think Totoro is not even in their top 3, then I would still recommend NOT downvoting 😃
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The problem is that there’s no way to enforce this in practice. All of these conversations about voting culture, with examples and pontificating always just come off as “everyone who drives slower than me is a grandpa, everyone who drives faster than me is a lunatic.”
Downvotes will always be an “I disagree” button no matter what anyone wants or thinks.
This is why the Beehaw way is a good approach. No downvotes only upvotes. Then people actually have to tell why they disagree.
Most people on Lemmy right now are not using them in that way. As we grow, misuse of downvotes will almost certainly become more common, but right now people are self-policing their behavior for the most part
Those of us on kbin can see who up/downvotes. I’ve noticed, anecdotally, that once this became more wildly known, there have been fewer downvotes that mean “I disagree”, with them mostly being used on troll posts or obviously bigoted posts.
I’m aware of that and I like that behavior.
I’m also wary of potential downsides though. I think in smaller communities it could be a problem because people might start fights with each other when they check who downvoted them. But I’m not sure, at least now we have a good test environment on kbin, and so far it seems to be beneficial based on what you’re saying.
I think it’s overall good. A vote is no longer an anonymous action-- it’s personal, just like leaving a comment supporting or disagreeing would be. While I don’t think it would ever be appropriate to harass a person because they up/down voted something, I do think people should have to make the mental calculation about whether they’re willing to have any specific up or down vote available for anyone to see.
I think it’s done more good than harm and don’t want to see them anonymized again… but I do have to say I’ve found myself withholding a downvote that I think was completely justifiable and deserved because I didn’t want to be the first and only one and get shit for it.
This is kind of why, I feel like it is a bad thing. People can’t vote normally or are afraid to do so in a way.
Some won’t use the vote system to avoid possible trouble (arguments, downvoting back etc).
I personally have started to care way less about the upvote and downvote stuff. Reddit made it clear to me that it means nothing.
It just internet points and if something goes wrong, it’s all gone anyway.
I’ve upvoted comments that I disagreed with, but were well written an contributed to a good discussion. I only downvote for very low quality, spam or hateful comments.
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The only times I’ve really been downvoting is if someone is giving out completely incorrect information, like in a support thread or something, and confusing matters. It’s not a personal judgement or anything, just trying to keep things clear for the person asking the question.
If I disagree with a comment, well no biggie. Sometimes it’s worth discussing like adults and sometimes it’s just a subjective opinion. If it’s offensive, I’ll report it and block the user.
Taste my righteous wrath and because I can do it with one click without explaining why means I don’t need to and the internet is on my side. Feels like the implicit meaning when I’m downvoted.
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Are upvotes for agreement ok though? Or should upvotes be reserved for quality content?
If you agree with something, you probably consider it quality content.
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Originally up- and down votes were intended to crowd source filtering and rating content in a community. So voting up for things you want to see more of and vote down spam or content that is unfit for the community. But people will tend to upvote things they agree with and downvote those they deem wrong - I also find myself doing something like that. I now try to follow these rules:
- Upvote things I like (or agree with)
- Don’t vote on things I don’t agree with or think are dumb
- Downvote things that I feel really don’t belong here.
It helps that lemmy currently shows the number of up and down votes instead of just the score, it gives a bit more inhibition before downvoting stuff.
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Good question. I think reporting is left to cases where a post is so bad that a moderator needs to take action to remove it or the user from the community. So downvote things that are of low quality and report things that are against the community or instance rules?
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Everyone will come up with their own metric and the results will be an average of both and other things.
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=This is Bad content, which i want to see less of
I think this is very close to the most solid answer possible. Like
This is Bad content
I agree completely with this bit. Downvotes are inherently subjective, as is the concept of Bad content. But to make a choice of what to downvote, someone has to identify something worth deeming downvotable, and screw it, that’s a good way to deacribe what the majority of what falls under that umbrella.
The next bit is where I’d make a correction.
which I want others to see less of
You can’t unsee that bad content, it’s too late. And you can’t guarantee that downvoting will dissuade its continued presence. The only correlation between the two involves an expected emotional attachment between the posters of the bad content and their scoring outcome, and that’s not always here nor there. Bad content posters can be persistent.
But downvoting it has an immediate effect on the visibility of the Bad content for other people. It also labels that content. Doing so, puts it away from other people’s eyes, and tells others that someone thinks it should be put away. Maybe they’ll come to agree or disagree with that downvote, maybe it’ll lead to you seeing less content. Also no guarantee. But that immediate effect, the visibility and the score, can not be taken away.
In either scenario, it’s a communication tool. It may relate to your wishes for content, but mechanically, its impact is felt by a third party.
Up = I like this
Down = I hate this
If you have more ups than downs: The viewers commonly liked it.
If you have more downs than ups: The viewers commonly hated it.
It’s simple and it’s how it’s always worked, and likely will continue to work, regardless of any deeper sentiments some people may have about it.
I wish there was a new button that simply meant “I have no opinion on this one way or another.” But I guess that’s simply non-engagement.
It doesn’t have to be a button. Just let users see how many other users saw their comment. If a user scrolls into the comments section and stops on my comment for a second or two, that counts as a read.
Alternatively, tally up the total number of user-seconds spent viewing my comment. Or maybe an average. Just something that lets me know I’m not a ghost!
Its both. It will never, not be both. This idea that there should be some rule that we have to up vote things that we disagree with because it’s well written is cope from people that needs to go outside.
Comments get downvoted because it failed to convince people to agree with the comment and that makes it a bad comment.
But as an intelligent person, you can also discriminate between something that doesn’t convince you personally, and something that is completely without value or irrelevant.
When you refrain from downvoting in the former instance, you contribute to a more healthy discussion. Not every person that I disagree with is a bad person; similarly, not every comment that I disagree with is a bad comment.
Yes, it really bugs me when I get downvotes but not one single comment articulating what they are not liking or what they disagree with. I could not care less about the score, I’m here for discussion and also debate. I often find when I ask “why the downvotes” it’s because people misinterpreted what I wrote (my fault, I need to be clear) or I used info they didn’t have (something I know because of an area of interest that I think it’s common knowledge in that group). Both can “fixed” by discussion.
You’re taking things way to personally on the internet if you worry about down votes. It’s not people’s job to explain everything to you. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t, learn to move on from downvotes.
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