I understand their reasoning behind this, but I am not sure, this is such a good idea. Imagine Letsencrypt having technical issues or getting DDoS’d. If the certificates are valid for 90 days and are typically renewed well in advance, no real problem arises, but with only 6 days in total, you really can’t renew them all that much in advance, so this risk of lots of sites having expired certificates in such a situation appears quite large to me.
That’s true, but it would also have to be a serious attack for LE to be down for 3 entire days. There are multiple providers for automated certs, so you could potentially just switch if needed.
Most companies are not really suited for instant switching to a different cert service.
The attack would only need to last for a day or two, and then everyone requesting updated certs when it stops could push enough people outside the 6-day window to cause problems. 6 days is probably long enough to not be a huge issue, but it’s getting close to problematic. Maybe change to 15 days, which should avoid the whole issue (people could update once/week and still have a spare week and a day to catch issues).
No one forces you to use let’s encrypt certificates. Can just quickly switch to another one temporarily.
Yeah, if you notice within that 6-day window before it expires. If you don’t catch it, your service could be down while you fix it, and that’s bad.
Yeah you might be on vacation when it happens
Yeah you might be on vacation when it happens
What the fuck is a vacation?
And then you forget about CAA records and wonder why it’s not working
When I look at the default list of trusted CAs in my browser, I get the feeling that certificate lifetimes isn’t the biggest issue with server certificates.
People who’d abuse trust into centralized PKI system are not real, they can’t hurt you, because if they abuse it, said system’s reputation will fall to zero, right?
Except it’s being regularly abused. LOL. And everybody is using it.
The sites I have most frequently have had to add expired certificates to use are US government websites. Particularly those affiliated with the military branches. It’s sad.
Yes X.509 is broken. If you’re a developer and not pinning certs, you’re doing it wrong.
What
What part are you confused about, and are you a developer?
Edit: why was I downvoted for asking this?
I’m a developer and would appreciate you going into more specifics about which certificates you suggest pinning.
I’m saying that if you’re a developer of software that communicates between two nodes across the internet, you shouldn’t rely on X.509 because the common root stores have historically been filled with compromised CAs, which would let someone with that CA decrypt and view the messages you send with TLS.
You should mint your own certs and pin their fingerprints so that your application will only send messages if the fingerprint of the cert on the other end matches your trusted cert.
OK, so cases where you control both ends of the communication. Thanks for the clarification.
And your software stops functioning after X years due to this.
Don’t do this, this is a bad idea.
Yeah, fuck the users. We can just slap “100% secure” on the box and who cares if some woman is raped and murdered because we decided not to follow best security practices, right? /s
Yeah, now imagine pinning certs that change weekly.
My first thought is that old school secure software (like claws-mail) treats a cert change as a minor security incident, asking you to confirm every time. Completely different school of thought.
It’s kind of in line with their plan to get rid of OCSP: short certificate lifetimes keep CRLs short, so I get where they’re coming from (I think).
90 days of validity, which was once a short lifetime. Currently, Google is planning to enforce this as the maximum validity duration in their browser, and I’m sure Mozilla will follow, but it wouldn’t matter if they didn’t because no provider can afford to not support chromium based browsers.
I was expecting that they reduce the maximum situation to e.g. 30 days, but I guess they want to make the stricter rules optional first to make sure there are no issues.
Interesting. I use LetsEncrypt largely for internal services, of which I expose a handful externally, and I’ve been thinking of only opening the external port mapping for cert renewals. With this at 90 days, I was planning on doing this once/month or so, but maybe I’ll just go script it and try doing it every 2-3 days (and only leave the external ports open for the duration of the challenge/response).
I’m guessing my use-case is pretty abnormal, but it would be super cool if they had support for this use-case. I basically just want my router to handle static routes and have everything be E2EE even on my LAN. Shortening to 6 days is cool from a security standpoint, but a bit annoying for this use-case.
You can use DNS challenge to renew your certificates without opening ports! Have a look at acme.sh for automation.
Oh, awesome! I thought that was a manual process, so I’ve been using the regular method.
Looks like I have a new project for this weekend. My DNS is currently hosted at Cloudflare, so this should be pretty straightforward.
Caddy with the cloudflare module makes TLS with DNS verification insanely simple
Nice! I use Caddy, so this should be a snap.
certbot has modules for most DNS providers as well.
Digicert, Sectigo, Globalsign: hold my beer, 1 day certificate, even better: on the fly certificate per client 😂
Which of them is free?
I wonder how short this could conceivably go…
Dynamic generation. There is no certificate until user request.
Perfect, let’s also bind the certificate to a user session that is derived from a user fingerprint. That way the CA can track users across all sites
I just want to serve https, not get someone’s dick permanently installed in my ass
Don’t certs just create an ephemeral key pair that disappears after the session anyhow? What does cert validity period have to do with “This is a big upgrade for the security of the TLS ecosystem because it minimizes exposure time during a key compromise event.”
I mean, it’s LE so I’m sure they know what their talking about. But…?
compromising a keypair is a huge win. lets you impersonate the domain. shorter validation periods = smaller windows of compromised situations.
basically the smaller you make the window the less manual intervention and the less complicated infrastructure gets. currently TLS systems need a way to invalidate certificates. get them down to a day and suddenly that need just disappears. vastly simplifying the code and the system. 6 days is a huge improvement over 90 days.
I’m far from an expert on PKI, but isn’t the keypair used for the cert used for key exchange? Then in theory, if that key was compromised, it could allow an adversary to be able to capture and decrypt full sessions.
Im also not an expert but i believe since there Is still an ephemeral DH key exchange happening an attacker needs to actively MITM while having the certificate private key to decrypt the session. Passive capturing wont work
Have you read about perfect forward secrecy?
Since I set up a https website (lemmy) and had to deal with the hassle of certificates, I do wonder why you need another entity to churn out what’s basically a RSA key pair?
Is it this you must trust the government again or is there some better reasons for it?
It’s to make sure you’re actually reaching your intended endpoint. If I’m visiting a site for the first time, how do I know I actually have THEIR certificate? If it’s self generated, anybody could sign a certificate claiming to be anybody else. The current system is to use authority figures who validate certificates are owned by the site you’re trying to visit. This means you have a secure connection AND know you’re interacting with the correct site.
Okay fair enough, but can I be a trusted entity and offer that service?
I don’t know what the process is like to become a certificate authority. I imagine the answer is technically yes but realistically no, at least not as an individual. You’d be providing a critical piece of internet infrastructure, so you’d need the world to consider you capable of providing the service reliably while also capable of securing the keys used to sign certificates so they can’t be forged. It’s a big responsibility that involves putting a LOT of trust in the authority, so I don’t think it’s taken very lightly.
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What is the use case or benefit for the server admin?
as a server admin I wouldn’t want to keep renewing my cert.
can anyone help to explain?
Increase how often the drones call the mothership, excellent.
