They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
there is a bin in the café according to you lmao.
this is ridiculous tbh, protecting wildlife is more important than your convenience in that place lmao, you’re annoyed that you have to walk inside to throw your trash?? wtf lol.
There are probably just going to be more people dropping trash on the floor instead of a bin
The only problem with the bins that got removed had with wildlife was when wasps nested in them one year. They had sprung loaded flaps
They just don’t want to pay people to empty the bins. Defunding. DEFUNDING!
“we don’t want to pay human beings to do the necessary work created by our business, so we’re offloading it to you.”
fwiw removing trash cans and promoting not littering is proven to reduce litter.
It’s people that suck generally
Can you cite this source? It’s my personal experience that people will just drop things on the ground if there’s not a convenient trash can.
there’s no way that’s true… you mean people who can’t hold on to waste until they see a garbage can, instead will hold on to it until they go home? doesn’t even make sense
Growing up in the 60s, we saw anti-littering commercials, called PSAs (Public Service Announcements),on TV every day. Ask any older American what they remember about those PSAs, and they will say “The crying Indian.”
Today, they never show those anymore, and i am seeing young people littering as a result. I was recently in a fast food lot, and saw a car pull in, a young guy about 20 get out, and throw a bunch old fast food trash into the bushes, then walk into the restaurant. He passed a trash can next to the door on his way in, where he could have tossed his trash, but he just tossed it in the bushes instead.
I collected up the trash, and set it on the hood of his fancy hot rod.
I’ve seen plenty of similar examples in the last few years, because young people dont see those PSAs telling them not to, and even their parents havent been educated to teach them.
I remember those commercials they ran into the early 80’s. Peter Sarstdet song in the background
Idk, that was before my time and it just seems common sense to me to not litter 🤷♂️ the trash doesn’t just disappear and it will become someone else’s problem.
It feels to me a lot of people don’t care if it becomes someone else’s problem and that mentality goes through all parts of their lives.
And that was the secondary effect of PSAs like the litter campaign. The underlying message was that we are all in this together, we have to live with each other, so lets try to clean up after ourselves because it benefits us all.
That message being burned in our brains at such a young age contributed to our sense of pride in America. Today, it’s just everyone for themselves.
I was born in the early 90s but I saw those PSAs in school. We were taught very early that littering is not only immoral but illegal. We were pretty much scared into thinking of the environment. I like that approach. Made me respect the environment into my adulthood
I’ve seen mongoloids throw trash on the floor while they stood less than a foot away from the trashcan. Should’ve thrown him in the trash.
The only way this will work is if humans behave in ways that no human has ever humaned
There are countries where this is culturally how litter is managed. Japan is a fully developed example - bins are hard to come by, everyone brings their trash with them.
It can be done.
Unless they are in a car, take a walk along one of the less used roads and you will find empty food containers and piss bottles galore
Just putting in my 2 cents. I don’t remember seeing any trash from my 2 weeks in Japan. The country is impeccably clean.
If there is a bin I will use it, if not I will take it home.
If you don’t you are scum and deserve to be pilloried in the town square.
While it can be done you have to have a focus on the group over the individual like Japan for It to happen. The main issue faced in most of the countries where litter would be an issue are ones that are more indiviualistic. So you have to upend the entire culture of a country and move its focus off of self and onto the whole. Can it be done? Eventually. Will it be done? Not likely.
So for now, there should be bins. Lol
People who go to trails are not gaurnteed, but are more likely to care about the environment they traveled to go to. Mostly.
Sounds to me like they just dont want to empty the bins any more. I suspect after a few months of picking rubbish off the floor, the bins will be back.
Or not and everyone will complain and stop going.
Pack in, Pack out.
There is a potentially good way to do this, ensure the cafe uses minimal packaging and what packaging is used is compostable. Then just have compost bins.
We survive that way in Japan with almost no bins. Of course the odd person litters, but most don’t; if we can pack it in, we can pack it out. Now, if there were no bin inside the cafe, that would be idiotic.
I do have the impression that Japanese people have a much stronger “social responsibility” with public stuff compared to most westerners.
Whilst this is not wrong and shame is a big motivator in Japan, some otherwise bored cops fining literers for a while would probably prevent that situation. On the other hand, I think maintaining some bins (infra to install and hardware + maintenance cleaning and maybe the odd security check) would be cheaper, beeter, and friendlier
*all westerners
Really. Japanese society has a lot of issues on its own, but there’s also a lot to learn from them.
I disagree with the broad brush as not all westerners nor easterners would fit into that (see rural areas that suddenly got disposable travel income), you are right that Japan is far from perfect but we could all benefit from some exchange
The places with the fewest places to deposit one’s trash are always the ones with the most litter. Always.
If someone wants another person to adapt a behavior, from a purely practical standpoint, that person must make the other person’s job easier or it will simply not work to get them to adapt. If this wasn’t a forest (such as it is, it being the UK), the only proper thing to do would be to dump as much trash there as possible while demanding the bins back until they get the message and cave in. I could write a whole book here about how the packaging industry paid lobbyists and PR firms to put the blame on consumers for the useless crap they make existing in the first place, and shaming them into keeping it out of sight and thus out of mind. I won’t. But it’s a tale vile enough that it convinced me that there’s a time and a place for littering as protest. The woods aren’t the place.
Besides, there ARE receptacles that are critter resistant. This is an absolute cop out, and seeing how landscaped the area is, a couple of bins would hardly scar the landscape. This is pure crap. I looked the place up, and it’s NOT the kind of place where you deny people trash receptacles, nor is it the kind of place you can credibly base your argument on “we don’t want animals to get used to people”. Good lord, what a bunch of idiocy.
It’s been this way as long as I can remember down at Moors Valley. From my limited observations there, it surprisingly works much better than you might expect.
Yeah I have seen a lot of trash cans in public parks that get ransacked by wildlife. Raccoons or even crows throwing all the trash out to get into a bag of fast food.
If someone can carry loaded food packaging in they should bring their own bag and pack it all out. It is probably better to lighten the load on the forestry workers by having a smaller number of receptacles available.
I wouldn’t be mildly infuriated by this at all. I try to pick up any trash I see anyhow. It is convenient but doesn’t bother me if I take it home and get rid of it there .
You said carry in. OP said this is a cafe, so not carried in. Acquired on site = disposed on site.
🤦♂️Doh
“To support our commitment to reducing the number of covid cases, we have elected to discontinue counting them. We kindly ask all infected to kindly die at home.”
Skip that last sentence.
Maybe in some nations.
One problem with outside bins is that the wildlife is naturally drawn to them and the contents can be damaging to them as well as desensitising animals to people, plus things like squirrels and birds will pull rubbish out of the bins and spread it around.
Why not put that on the sign then instead of some vague, unrelated bollocks that doesn’t justify the removal? If that’s the case then I feel the wording on the sign is borderline dishonest.
You can have wildlife proof bins.
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
That’s literally the patio of a commercial place that sells food enclosed in trash.
If they rely on volunteers to clean the trash, a lot of people are doing lots of things very wrong.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can.
But you’ve removed all the cans rather than fix your budgeting problems.
I’m sure the parking lot or your house has one. Why do you think other people should pay for your laziness to dispose of your own garbage?
With that logic, why go to this park? The parking lot is outside and with nature and your house would have trees and nature around. So we should just all stay home near our trashcans. Ridiculous.
… did you hit your head today?
That’s the function of the parks service. And it’s taxpayer money, so it’s my money paying for it too.
The function of the parks service is to maintain the parks, rivers, and forests (aka nature) of the area they operate. Idk what in your view makes “nature conservation” overlap with “making sure entitled lazy dickheads have a trash can every 10 feet they can ignore” but you might want to reevaluate your stance here. Govt funding is tight enough for these agencies trying to do what they can as it is. Catering to “But I don’t want to hold my trash for 10 minutes” like a whining baby is not their concern. Nor should anyones be. You’re a grown adult. Take your trash, shove it in a pocket or a bag until you can throw it away like an adult.
Do you think you are currently speaking to any litterers? What in the world makes you think a) your rant will ever reach them, and b) that it will make them suddenly become decent people?
People are shit. You get trash in the bin or trash on the ground. I prefer the bin.
So now instead of them being able to provide other services they need to continue piddling money away so you can be lazy and throw your trash where you please?
People don’t want to pay more taxes so you can just be lazy and need garbage cans every 20 feet dude… shitty take lmfao. They would much rather the money go to making things better, not perpetuating laziness and creating eyesores.
Do you think people like seeing and smelling garbage bins while taking a nature walk?! Seriously?
Better than seeing trash everywhere dude
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
If people weren’t such babies and cleaned up after themselves, we wouldn’t need to waste taxpayers money on cleaning up after adults who could do it themselves.
I dunno about you, but if I see a bin in a public area, I assume some is paid to empty it. I don’t empty it myself.
If you took your own garbage with you like a decent human, there would be no bins to be emptied and you would have better uses for that tax money.
Where did I imply the public should be doing it….?
So your entire argument is public bins are useless?
You understand that people should clean up after themselves whether or not there is a bin, but offering a bin is a useful service that greatly helps people out can be compatible right.
The cafe has a bin inside of it, put your garbage there before leaving.
They removed the bins from the public forestry path.
Not everyone is using the cafe? People are allowed not to eat in a private restaurant. The availability of a bin shouldn’t be dependent on spending money.
So, I agree with you, but them providing bins implies they’re going to be responsible and empty them, and people should feel free to use them. They shouldn’t have to try to predict which cans are fine to use and which ones aren’t.
This post is them doing the correct thing if they aren’t going to do that, and it isn’t an issue. Put your trash in your pocket or your backpack or something. It isn’t hard.
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
Sounds like there’s a bunch of people and some kind of organisation that runs this area, after all, they made the decision to take the bins away. This is also a cafe area, so someone’s making money off this zone.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
Yes… the sign is from the forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
If this was a businesses garbage, those usually aren’t overrun, since they have plenty of time and money to deal with the garbage.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
he forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
great. good.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
???
The problem isn’t that a park removed their trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash cans.
The cafe still has garbage cans inside, and why would the forestry speak for the cafe…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry, why would you claim the cafe removed the bins when they stated THEY did themselves?
It’s like people just make shit up to get mad about. The sign told you who removed it for fucks sakes lmfao.
What makes you think the cafe still has bins inside? The OP here is claiming the bins were removed from the cafe/picnic area.
Because they legally have to? You can’t have a food service business and not have garbage and recycling bins….
Are you just gonna make up any stupid reason you can come up with now to try and save face that you can’t read a sign?
The OP also claims there is still trash bins inside; and the edit to add this information was done 1 hour before this guy claims there is no bins inside 🤦♂️.
Me, via my taxes I would expect.
So they can’t afford to keep the land they have in trust so it is all the landless peasantry that should labor for the land holders because kindness ?
Wild argument. No one is “laboring for land holders”, they’re cleaning up after themselves for their own good and the good of everyone/thing around them
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
There’s a cafe and forestry workers, is it that time consuming?
In this instance, yes, but which is why I said the cafe worker should have an internal bin for customer usage. In most other cases there is no one on site for weeks at a time.
Didn’t realise visits would be so irregular, so I apologise for the sarcasm.
Also hate that people are shit.
And how do they get the garbage to the dump? You would need vehicles, insurance, garage, maintenance departments… it all snowballs.
Just be responsible for your own garbage, not a hard concept.
The cafe will have a contract with someone to take away waste, this waste could be included.
I totally agree people should take away rubbish that they create, unfortunately many dont.
Public waste wouldn’t be included in the cafes waste, you expecting them to foot the bill?
Sounds like the cafe is run by forestry England. If they don’t want thick and lazy people to chuck waste around the forest and cafe area, I think they should provide bins. Unfortunately, some people don’t care.
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the left and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
May I ask the name of this place? I’d like to pull it up on Google Maps and have a look at the layout.
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
I think that’s the problem. I interpret it as the cafe removed their bins.
It’s a sign from the forest ministry, they removed their bins.
Why on earth would you think a sign from the ministry of forestry would be speaking for and removing a cafes bins…?
Read the fucking sign for fucks sakes. It’s literally, right fucking there.
Read the fucking post for fucks sake. It’s right fucking there.
The sign says the bins were removed. The post headline says the bins were removed from the cafe area. This is a cafe at a visitor center at a forest.
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Sorry to break it to you, but the OP explicitly states that they believe bins are still inside the cafe. In other comments they also claim they are still available at other nearby parking lots.
The cafe is a building itself and the park removed the bins from outside.
You realize that OP probably missed stuff or intentionally withheld information to make this sound worse than it is?
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Says the one assuming and claiming with zero evidence that the cafe removed them…? When there’s a nice little sign that explains everything already?
Read the sign, and have a little critical thinking yourself. This isn’t that hard to comprehend.
The cafe is a building. Inside are bins, OP had even stated this, or is OP not a good source when it doesn’t align with your ignorance?
I’m calling you out, since this has already been figured out, and you’re just late to the party and saying “the cafe did this”.
No they didn’t, stop perpetuating that lie that is easily disproved by the sign OP posted for us….
It’s not like paper and plastic wrappers are heavy or bulky. Just hold onto it or put it your pocket until you get home or find a bin elsewhere.
So empty them.
Just take your garbage home.
I’m already going home.
“We don’t have enough funds to make the guys do that route, what do we do? what did you say Shannon? masquerade it as taking care of the environment? that’s fantastic”
Hey ChatGPT, I’m a dork who works for a local council and we are cutting costs by removing two bins from a local forestry. Can you come up with a sign that spins the removal of these bins into a positive?
