The Hawaii Supreme Court handed down a unanimous opinion on Wednesday declaring that its state constitution grants individuals absolutely no right to keep and bear arms outside the context of military service. Its decision rejected the U.S. Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment, refusing to interpolate SCOTUS’ shoddy historical analysis into Hawaii law. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the ruling on this week’s Slate Plus segment of Amicus; their conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

  • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,

    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    As written, the right to bear arms only applies to people who are in a well regulated militia.

    To me it seems like that statement is broken down into two parts, divided by the second comma.

    What it’s premise is is that a militia could be formed at any time when the need arises (the Minutemen, etc.), so all the citizenry can have guns so that they are armed when the militia is formed.

    Now if back then militias always existed, and they were not formed/disbanded as needed, then ignore what I just said, as it’s incorrect. Edit: just realized if they’re always formed or not wasn’t the issue, its if they were given guns to fight or if they had to bring their own guns to the fight.

    • jayemar@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Interesting, I’d never read it that way before. A lot of interpretation sure does seem to hinge on those little commas.

    • GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      This is how I’ve always read it, especially given the historical context of the minute men being ready to go within a minute should the continental army/US call them to service.

      The US wasn’t intended to have a standing army when we were founded, it was supposed to be militias.

    • Dkarma@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      This provision is completely irrelevant because we now have literal national guard in every state. The 2nd needs to be removed entirely. There is no need for militias anymore to defend the US against Britain or any other country.

      • Clent@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Repealing the second is the logical conclusion to the insane path the right has taken us down.

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        This provision is completely irrelevant because we now have literal national guard in every state. The 2nd needs to be removed entirely. There is no need for militias anymore to defend the US against Britain or any other country.

        Well, that’s a whole other different conversation to be had. I just replied with an interpretation of the actual amendment.

        Our forefathers expected us to modify and enhance the Constitution over the centuries, and not that it would be static forever, mired in the time frame of when it was written.

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Modify through amendments, not malicious interpretation

            I wasn’t suggesting anything malicious. /shrug

            Having said that, the amendments themselves are interpreted, which gets us to where we are today, since they were written so long ago. Time has a way of distorting both language and meaning.

            • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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              9 months ago

              I wasn’t saying you are, just what I hear argued from most people in support of a living constitution. Basically that the text of the law doesn’t matter, if it’s considered outdated. But IMO thats the place of the elected legislature to change, not judges, who’s job is to best apply what was written.

              Having said that, the amendments themselves are interpreted, which gets us to where we are today, since they were written so long ago. Time has a way of distorting both language and meaning.

              That’s definitely true, but there are more genuine honest interpretations, and more dishonest ones. IMO, looking at what the intent was at the time of writing is best, but I can understand the argument of only wanting to follow what is explicitly written.

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                That’s definitely true, but there are more genuine honest interpretations, and more dishonest ones.

                Not disagreeing with anything that you wrote, but as far as what I quoted above, I just wanted to say that ‘dishonesty’ tends to be in the eye of the beholder, and people tend to distort their reality based on their own personal worldview/bias’, so it’s hard to get a ‘pure’ interpretation.

                But I do agree that we should all strive for honest interpretations, the best we can.