The Hawaii Supreme Court handed down a unanimous opinion on Wednesday declaring that its state constitution grants individuals absolutely no right to keep and bear arms outside the context of military service. Its decision rejected the U.S. Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment, refusing to interpolate SCOTUS’ shoddy historical analysis into Hawaii law. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discussed the ruling on this week’s Slate Plus segment of Amicus; their conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    ::sigh::

    This is a bad ruling; Hawai’i is saying that their state laws and traditions take precedent over federal laws, the US constitution, and SCOTUS rulings. It’s intentionally trying to undermine the concept of the rule of law in order to get the result that they want. That’s not a “devastating rebuke”, it’s a toddler screaming about not getting candy in the supermarket.

    This is counter to the concept of the rule of law, and should be seen as an embarrassment, not something to celebrate.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      That’s not a “devastating rebuke”, it’s a toddler screaming about not getting candy in the supermarket.

      It appears Hawai’i is parroting decisions by redder states, in an effort to force the SCOTUS to rule broadly on the question of Supremacy (or, at least, try and split the baby in some coherent way).

      This is counter to the concept of the rule of law

      Its counter to the concept of Federalism, but right in line with the Seperatist theory of law that quite a few modern day politicians happily espouse when it suits them.

    • SlothMama@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I think this also. I don’t think this is good, but it’s not without precedent considering how Federal law and marijuana legalization works on a State level superceding Federal.

      Truthfully this is just another ruling denying Federal as law of the land.

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        marijuana legalization works on a State level superceding Federal.

        it really doesn’t, though. federal agents can and still occasionally do assert the supremacy of federal prohibition over state level legalization, it’s just that they’ve been directed not to in most cases. you can absolutely still be arrested for possession and when I was getting my card they made an effort to point that out and told me not to bring it to the post office or national parks or anything else like that where the law enforcement is likely to be federal rather than state or local.

    • Verdant Banana@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      just like cannabis and other laws in states taking precedent over federal laws?

      Texas is another example and abortion is a state by state issue too as is medical and vehicle insurances

      driver’s licenses are a state by state thing too as is voting not a federal thing all state by state and education standards are state by state and SNAP benefits

      US should have gotten things more united and settled before it was too late and shattering instead of waiting to cry and moan about it afterwards

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I already responded to that. Local laws do not supersede federal marijuana laws, as you will quickly discover if you try to purchase a firearm. (And, BTW, if you are a ‘legal’ user of marijuana and buy a firearm, that’s a federal felony.)

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            WTF are you on about? I didn’t make any argument about “constitutional” carry. Moreover, the Bruen decision said that states could impose carry restrictions, just that the restrictions had to be reasonable and apply universally (neither of which is the case in New York, either the state or the city).

            As far as the states that no longer require a permit to carry? By saying that states may make reasonable restrictions on carrying firearms, SCOTUS has implicitly said that states may have permitless carry. …And TBH, since my state enacted permitless carry several years ago, I don’t believe that there’s been a significant rise in gun violence (aside from the spike seen across the country during the pandemic).

            I think that it’s just a non-issue.

            That said, I would hope that people that choose to carry would get some training, practice, and learn when they can legally use lethal self-defense. Which, sadly, mostly people do not.

              • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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                9 months ago

                So you can see why states are so defiant when the union tries to impose laws over them

                • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  Aren’t US states like counties? Like the states have a narrow set of rules they decide over and the rest comes from the top down.

                  • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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                    9 months ago

                    Over the years the federal government has expanded it’s power, so ideally yes but States still have a lot of power

                    The notion that they are self governing is why they scream about state’s rights and push against any loss of control