The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
“A child is always a gift and never the basis of a commercial contract,” the document says. “Every human life, beginning with that of the unborn child in its mother’s womb, cannot be suppressed, nor become an object of commodity.”
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they’re not about the child. They’re about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for “surrogacy” (I know, it’s technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
The issue is ensuring its clearly not coerced, which is effectively impossible in practice. Unfortunately it’s one of those things where once you allow people to be paid for it, it’s gets really, really dark, really, really quickly.
I don’t think it’s impossible at all. If the surrogate knows the person or people who want the child personally, it’s almost certainly not coerced even if money changes hands.
Exactly. My cousin liked being pregnant but they already had five kids. Yes; she was paid but the money was token. It paid for medical care, food, etc. to her it was about helping someone.
Im not sure I can be so confident just because the surrogate knows the couple. If anything that would make me more worried about coercion. That could easily add MORE pressure for a surrogate to take on the pregnancy if that surrogate knows how important it is to the couple.
My coworker had to use a surrogate to have a kid because of her infertility issues. I promise you, there was no coercion. When you regulate things it’s much easier to ensure everyone is consenting. The problems happen when you ban shit and drive it underground.
That’s amazing, I’m glad your coworker was able to find someone and get to be a parent.
I’m sorry if I came across as advocating against surrogacy. I don’t nearly know enough to have that strong of an opinion on it in either direction. All I wanted to get across was that making sure there’s no coercion is hard. Not impossible, but hard. There were some really sweeping statements under this post that felt like they were oversimplifications and I wanted to consider the nuance.
I don’t know how I feel about it overall (surrogacy, not gay people getting to have children, that’s beautiful), but it’s hard to be confident there’s no coercion when money is involved. The money itself can be coercive especially if the surrogate is particularly in need of the money. I’m not sure it can always be “clear” it’s not coerced.
Absolutely! And more to cover other expenses like maternity clothing, any comfort items to manage the pregnancy, additional dietary needs, and probably some more to help account for how traumatic a pregnancy can be and the body changes it causes.
I’m absolutely not advocating that a surrogate shouldn’t get paid. Just that it’s hard to separate payment from coercion in even the best situations.
Separate from any discussion about surrogacy, that’s fucked and our adoption system should be way more accepting of gay couples than it is. There’s no reason it should be so hard.
Believe it or not, there are women in this world who love being pregnant and want to help couples have kids. There are laws around it and reputable clinics make sure everyone is consenting.
So the vatican can fuck off with this outdated way of looking at the world. In fact, if you consensually want to sell your body in any way, we should be allowing it with regulations, be it surrogacy, egg donation, or sex work. Make it safe and make it a choice.
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they’re not about the child. They’re about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for “surrogacy” (I know, it’s technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
My cousin did it because she wanted to help someone have a child. She didn’t do it for the money. When it’s a financial transaction, I see the issue.
It also helps LBGT couples who can’t have children get them. I don’t see an issue even if there is money involved if it is clearly not coerced.
The issue is ensuring its clearly not coerced, which is effectively impossible in practice. Unfortunately it’s one of those things where once you allow people to be paid for it, it’s gets really, really dark, really, really quickly.
I don’t think it’s impossible at all. If the surrogate knows the person or people who want the child personally, it’s almost certainly not coerced even if money changes hands.
Exactly. My cousin liked being pregnant but they already had five kids. Yes; she was paid but the money was token. It paid for medical care, food, etc. to her it was about helping someone.
Im not sure I can be so confident just because the surrogate knows the couple. If anything that would make me more worried about coercion. That could easily add MORE pressure for a surrogate to take on the pregnancy if that surrogate knows how important it is to the couple.
My coworker had to use a surrogate to have a kid because of her infertility issues. I promise you, there was no coercion. When you regulate things it’s much easier to ensure everyone is consenting. The problems happen when you ban shit and drive it underground.
That’s amazing, I’m glad your coworker was able to find someone and get to be a parent.
I’m sorry if I came across as advocating against surrogacy. I don’t nearly know enough to have that strong of an opinion on it in either direction. All I wanted to get across was that making sure there’s no coercion is hard. Not impossible, but hard. There were some really sweeping statements under this post that felt like they were oversimplifications and I wanted to consider the nuance.
I don’t know how I feel about it overall (surrogacy, not gay people getting to have children, that’s beautiful), but it’s hard to be confident there’s no coercion when money is involved. The money itself can be coercive especially if the surrogate is particularly in need of the money. I’m not sure it can always be “clear” it’s not coerced.
In the U.S., where medical care is expensive, I think money to cover that should be expected.
Absolutely! And more to cover other expenses like maternity clothing, any comfort items to manage the pregnancy, additional dietary needs, and probably some more to help account for how traumatic a pregnancy can be and the body changes it causes.
I’m absolutely not advocating that a surrogate shouldn’t get paid. Just that it’s hard to separate payment from coercion in even the best situations.
plenty of unwanted people out there to adopt, no need to make more
Do you know how hard it is for a gay couple to adopt in the U.S.?
Separate from any discussion about surrogacy, that’s fucked and our adoption system should be way more accepting of gay couples than it is. There’s no reason it should be so hard.
Espically since religious groups run the show to facilitate a sort of human trafficking
Lesbian, Bay, Guysexual, Trans
Believe it or not, the letters can go in any order.
Not appreciating utterly hilarious ‘guysexul’ pun and going “well ackchully” instead
Believe it or not, there are women in this world who love being pregnant and want to help couples have kids. There are laws around it and reputable clinics make sure everyone is consenting.
So the vatican can fuck off with this outdated way of looking at the world. In fact, if you consensually want to sell your body in any way, we should be allowing it with regulations, be it surrogacy, egg donation, or sex work. Make it safe and make it a choice.