10-year-old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah was killed in pager explosions in Lebanon.

Israel murders another kid again.

  • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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    3 months ago

    Not that I think the Israel is the good guy in this conflict, but your argument is pretty weak.

    Pager are designed to be trackable. If you have such deep access to these devices, you know exactly who got called by whom and when.

    Yes, there will be collateral damage, but that’s almost a given in any armed conflict.

    • Threeme2189@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      If these were one-way pagers,they are not easy to track, as they don’t transmit messages, but only receive and display them.

      • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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        3 months ago

        …and you know which telephone numbers send data to the pager and at which time. That is sufficient to track or identify individuals.

        If this is a supply chain attack, the attacker already knows, which pagers are part of the organization they want to target.

        What this thread here shows really well, is that the general population vastly underestimates the abilities of intelligence agencies and technology in general.

        • Threeme2189@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          You wrote a bunch of things that have nothing to do with my comment.

          The terrorist organization Hezbollah used dumb pagers exactly because they don’t transmit anything, and therefore are very hard to track.

          • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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            3 months ago

            No, they are not.

            As I wrote, you can track which pager got paged when. And you can identify who uses that pager. The pager itself does not need to transmit anything for that.

            You obviously don’t know how tracking works.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              You can’t track a pager.

              A mobile tower will send it a message, but since there’s no two-way communication, theres no way to track where the pager received the message. (Even if it was a two-way one, you need at least three good points of connection to be able to triangulate it.)

              So how exactly do you identify who’s using a pager you don’t even know the location of?

              You obviously don’t know how tracking works.

              Ditto

              • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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                3 months ago

                By tracking who sent what to whom?

                If you know the phone number of a Hisbollah member and they send messages to a set of pagers, these are likely Hisbollah pagers. If you do that to several phone numbers, you get a pretty comprehensive list of members. You don’t need to know, where exactly they are. That’s simply not relevant.

                And again: if it’s a supply chain attack, you don’t even need these contacts. Just a single entry point into the supply chain of the organization.

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  By tracking who sent what to whom?

                  And since tracking the devices is actually impossible, how would you know which pager is where and held by whom,

                  Say one of the pagers wasn’t delivered to the person who you “know” it to belong to. Say it got dropped in front of a school. Say another person who has one and even is a Hezbollah member, is visiting a children’s hospital, because they’re people too and usually have reasons to fight (even if their fighting style is immoral to some). Say another is eating dinner with his family. Etc. Etc. Etc.

                  There’s no way to verify any of that. It’s basically just as bad if not worse than carpet-bombing. Unless you implant a device like this on a person and then have surveillance on that person to know where they are and who with when you detonate the device, you’re probably doing a war crime.

            • Threeme2189@lemm.ee
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              3 months ago

              You obviously don’t know how one-way pagers work.

              You can’t easily track a device that doesn’t communicate outwardly.

              Please track the location of my ceiling fan, it receives wireless transmissions from a remote and beeps in response. Kind of like a pager.

              • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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                3 months ago

                I don’t need your location.

                Pager transmissions contain a sender and a receiver. That’s all the information you need. If a known Hisbollah sender sends to a receiver, that receiver obviously has some ties to Hisbollah.

                • Threeme2189@lemm.ee
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                  3 months ago

                  Pager transmissions contain a sender and a receiver.

                  I agree. Although in this case the receiver does that and only that. No delivery confirmation or anything. Good luck tracking its location.

                  That’s all the information you need

                  How so? How do you track said dumb pager?

                  If a known Hisbollah sender sends to a receiver, that receiver obviously has some ties to Hisbollah.

                  This is a reasonable point. But that doesn’t mean you can pinpoint the recipients location.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  3 months ago

                  These are literally one-way receivers. It’s like how I can’t track your fm radio receiver

    • febra@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      So which armed conflict in the middle of Beirut are you talking about now?

            • febra@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Then I guess Hezbollah attacking IDF servicemen wherever they might be, including civilian areas in Tel Aviv, is completely okay. Even if it comes to some civilian casualties.

              • CoCo_Goldstein@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                I doubt if Hezbollah would attack the IDF directly. The IDF is armed and would shoot back immediatley.

                • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  3 months ago

                  They have attacked the IDF many times and secured numerous casualities, just recently they struck an IDF intelligence unit with drones killing dozens, resulting in the commander’s resignation.

                • febra@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Oh no, they’ll probably just plant detonation devices™️ in areas where IDF servicemen usually are and hope that no collateral civilian casualties™️ happen. After all it’s a very genuine war tactic and definitely not a terrorist attack

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                Both of them are ‘wrong’ and ‘okay’ when they do this. But in some way Hezbollah is ‘more wrong’, because they (re)started it. The only result being a lot of useless casualties with no end in sight.

          • leisesprecher@feddit.org
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            3 months ago

            So, what exactly do you think would be a proper reaction here?

            Hisbollah is de facto a state actor in Lebanon. Lebanon is doing nothing against a group whose declared goal is the destruction of Israel, including shooting unguided rockets into civilian areas.

            Now, how would you address that? Unless you have any idea how else to solve this, you’re simply talking out of your ass.

            • Akagigahara@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              I hardly think it is necessary to be an expert in Near-East conflict or politics in order to condemn what basically amounts to a terrorist attack.

              Whether or not they should do something is a different issue all together. But dismissing criticism because they don’t provide an alternate solution to an intricate problem is hardly any more helpful. Israel has many more pathways to do this properly, one idea would be the ICJ.

              You’re also falling into an overgeneralization fallacy. While Hezbollah is in the lebanese government, this doesn’t make all citizens of lebanon complicit. Hezbollah doesn’t represent all of Lebanon, neither do Hamas all of Palestine or Netanjahu all of Israel.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              3 months ago

              Obviously Israel should kindly ask that they turn themselves over a the border so they can have a fair trial

              • febra@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Maybe they should stop their genocide in Palestine. Hesbollah has said on multiple occasions that they’ll stop any hostilities if a permanent ceasefire is implemented.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  3 months ago

                  They attacked one day after Hamas ‘to keep the IDF busy’. Their long term goal is to destroy Israel and install an islamic state, not keep the peace.