- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
Palestinian health authorities in Hamas-controlled Gaza said Israel struck a convoy of ambulances on Friday that was to leave al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and head to the south of the enclave to evacuate injured people.
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Here is why those death numbers have always been historically accurate and also how the medical system is not really run by Hamas as explained by the Associated Press
Adding this for pre “BuT HaMAs!?!” clarity.
Your source does not distinguish between military casualties and civilian ones which is the center of the entire argument. It comes self reported from hospitals and then taken at face value that they were not militants.
BuT HaMaS!
Yep, so instead let’s consider everyone to be a militant! That excuses genocide, problem solved!
Ding ding ding!
When people are literally shooting at you persistently, what do you suggest they do? When nobody recognizes their war crimes and there is no where to go what do you suggest they do? When nobody recognizes that you are getting shot at despite plenty of proof and evidence, what do you do?
You say your piece and do your best to follow the laws of war despite the opposing side not doing the same.
You cannot honestly tell me that you trust Hamas more than Israel to follow the laws of war.
I don’t trust an apartheid settler-colonial state run by a wannabe theocratic dictator any farther than I can throw it. Bottom line, you don’t have to trust Hamas either to see that Israel’s response to Hamas actions are both wildly disproportionate and completely indiscriminate in their targeting. Israeli political figures are on record that they don’t believe there is such a thing as an innocent Palestinian civilian and it shows in their willingness to slaughter bystanders by the dozens to get at a handful of suspected Hamas fighters.
I mean, there’s a lot to be criticized about the US and its actions in the “global war on terror,” but we actually built a missile for this exact circumstance, so that you don’t have to blow up an entire goddamn refugee camp to get one or two guys hiding inside it. Israel has the military capability to do something similar, they just don’t care. Palestinians aren’t people as far as they’re concerned.
They do not have this missile and we did the exact same thing as them when targeting militants that use those places for their operations. Any respectable military would because it is legal, ethical, and moral.
Funny you don’t mention the fact that the area called refugee camp collapsed because of the tunnels under it.
You should go over there
I’m good. I’ve been. Have you?
Its not moral or ethical. Stop. If you think it had to be done thats your opinon and you are entitled to it. Don’t pretend it was moral though. That’s absurd
What in your set of values is considered moral in war?
Israel has one of the most sophisticated military-industrial complexes in the world, with vast expertise in electronics and remote sensing specifically. If they wanted to build a precision-guided kinetic weapon for targeted assassinations of Hamas fighters in dense urban areas, they could have done it without a second thought. Instead they spend their efforts on building an oppressive surveillance apparatus and robotic machine guns to better punish rock-throwing teenagers, and lob bombs into population centers to deal with Hamas in the area.
re: the tunnels… these things tend to happen when you herd millions of people into a walled ghetto, cut off access to resources, and leave it to be run by what is effectively an overgrown prison gang. The fact that Hamas is willing to use civilians – nearly half of them children – as human shields does not excuse the use of indiscriminate force in calling that bluff. Again and again and again, Israel has made it abundantly clear that there is no war crime it will not excuse in the course of these retributive strikes, because the lives of Palestinians are worth less than nothing to Israeli leadership.
I dont. But I do expect an obviously more powerful army with total control of the situation to set an example and show restraint (and wisdom). If they reduce themsleves to their enemy, then they nees to stop with the moral high ground nonsense.
Its not so easy to hold your position when it’s your family that gets murderes becauae there might be one bad guy among them.
It was gross when Hamas did it, and its still gross when israel does it.
Israel is not aiming to maintain the situation because that was what they were doing before. Their goal is to win the war and completely eradicate Hamas as a power structure. Everything is to further that end within international law.
Hamas is doing their best to embed themselves within restricted targets and Israel does not always have the ability to tell when a building or vehicle they are seen going into is a restricted target. That does not make it illegal. It is also a war crime by Hamas. It places the blame purely on the side with knowledge of the ground. I’m yet to see Hamas get blamed for this in this conflict yet it absolutely is on them.
So this is Israels Vietnam eh?
Tell me, when you go into perform brain surgery to extract a persons cancer, why are you using a 10 pound hammer to perform the operation? It’s called a scalpel you clod.
Also tell me, if this is so precise then why are 40% of the fatalities children? That’s 10% shy of the total percentage of the population they represent.
Minimal effort is being taken, if any, to protect the people you claim brave Israel cares about. What a joke!
30,000 active Hamas fighters according to Israel and you’ve already killed 10,000 people. 4,000 of them children. You are an unapologetic accomplice to a massacre that is still ongoing. You remember that, no matter how “moral” you tell yourself it is.
I haven’t killed anyone in this conflict. I’m sorry you have affiliated yourself with Hamas but I have not done the same for Israel. I would also not conduct this war the same way but I also won’t stoop to calling it war crimes. It’s just war.
I’ll ask again. Don’t ignore it. What do you consider moral in war?
Well, Hamas didn’t murder 4000 children. So I think what you fail to recognize is that none of us trust either of these murders, but we will trust the 4000 child killer less.
Please provide a source where Israel started their intent was to murder children.
Your right, their indiscriminate “accidental” murder makes it A-OK.
They are at war. This is not a limited fight. They are conducting a total war to eliminate the Hamas power structure. Hamas showed them that any inch they give them will be payed in blood. The lesson they learned last conflict is that conducting a limited war literally makes no difference in the information environment. They will lose anyways there so they are conducting a legal war to achieve actual change.
I think you will find that absolutely none of these actually of war crimes will be stuck to anyone because the evidence is scarce at best, just like last time. The records match the decisions which match the intelligence. As long as no actual war crimes are committed, Israel could care less what you think of them this time.
ahh yes, please tell me about all the women and children being crushed under buildings that we’re there working at the behest of HaMaS! Please, like actually tell me, because the burden of proof is on you there.
Those buildings wouldn’t collapse if there weren’t Hamas tunnels under them. That’s literally the issue right now and why entire sections are falling down.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/31/1209646548/israel-military-central-gaza-fighting-hamas
@galloog1 @TinyPizza What kind of delusional crap is that? Most buildings aren’t designed to absorb an Israeli mortar round
Wow! Just vilifying the victims here
Most building are more robust than that. Israel is allegedly using bunker busters that penetrate the ground and hit the tunnels. You categorically do not know what you are talking about when it comes to fires.
I’m not vilifying the victim when the target is Hamas. They are not victims. They put themselves there intentionally (war crime) to create this dilemma which is in response to their massive attack on civilians which was defined in their actual orders. (War crime)
No one in Israel is claiming they are doing anything but targeting Hamas. Hamas is still holding civilian hostages and took credit for the attack.
When someone tells you who they are, you should believe them.
@galloog1 No!! Most buildings are NOT build to survive and explosion Where the fuck did you even get that from!! More to the point if you’re after one terrorist in one building you don’t blow the whole thing up! That’s just fucking stupid!
And the victims WOULD BE THE OTHER RESIDENTS OF THE BUILDING ISRAEL JUST MURDERED
Holy hell the stuff you say is patently dumb. Israel must be desperate to want you defending them. Goes around acting like an explosives expert and architect. What a garbage country Israel must be to have trash like you excusing their casual genocide.
Resorting to name calling instead of addressing my points. I will admit, you are very good at creating a narrative that resonates with people who have no idea how any of this works.
The IDF is claiming one of the ambulances had Hamas in it. I’m not joking or being sarcastic, that’s their official defense for blowing up a bunch of ambulances carrying medical personnel and hospital patients.
Can’t wait to hear people explain how Israel is justified because there were Hamas tunnels underground beneath the convoy.
Israel is a despicable rogue state that is backed by the US and it’s media.
Hamas is a despicable terrorist group that is backed by Quatar, its media an the Iran
what do we say out loud next?
Israel pretends to be the victim here.
they were on the 7th of october and on other occasions
I’m with you. Israel and Hamas are both terrorist organizations filled with war criminals that need to be brought before the international courts of justice. Bold stance. I like it.
didn’t say that so don’t put words in my mouth…
It’s like when the school bully is the principal’s/sheriff’s son. Israel feels it can do whatever it likes, because the West is actively encouraging it. Nobody is going to step in and stop it.
The videos of this are horrific. I’ve never see so much blood.
There are 10s of 1000s of people taking refuge in and around Al-Shifa.
At this point anyone who says this situation is complicated, that rants about the necessity of this “war”, or support Zionism and Israel’s state are complicit.
There is a lot of them,
Figured the stories about Hamas hiding in ambulances was setting up something. Here we are.
More genocide from the terrorist Israeli’s
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“The occupation targeted the convoy in more than one location outside the door of al-Shifa Hospital,” Ashraf al-Qidra the ministry spokesperson said.
He said the convoy was targeted both at the hospital gate and at Ansar Square a kilometer away.
Hamas-run Al-Aqsa television cited the Health Ministry as saying scores of people were killed and injured.
Earlier on Friday, Qidra said ambulances would send critically injured Palestinians who urgently needed care in Egypt from besieged Gaza City to the south of the enclave.
Israel, which has accused Hamas of concealing command centres and tunnel entrances in al-Shifa hospital, ordered all civilians to leave the north of Gaza last month and its military encircled the area on Thursday.
Hamas and al-Shifa hospital authorities have denied the facility is used as a base by militant fighters.
The original article contains 239 words, the summary contains 134 words. Saved 44%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
