The key will be if anything happens to that person as a result. Will there be any repercussions for him? If not, it is likely a systematic issue in their culture.
Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was “correct” given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was “incorrect”. The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.
Yeah, definitely, the Palestinians are suffering immensely and have never had a means of finding justice for the harms they have suffered. I wrote this in another comment, but if the Israelis ever decide to pursue a path of healing instead of genocide, it is going to take a long time for the Palestinians to heal and recover from those harms.
What would happen? Israelis have freedom of expression and it’s unlikely his disgusting comments rise to the level of a crime. Would you call that an actionable threat? He’s about as close to decision-makers as we are. Like, when Lindsey Graham called this conflict a holy war against Islam, it was revolting but I doubt most were surprised that he wasn’t legally punished. The most likely punishment is public ridicule and revulsion because there are few cases where people face legal consequences for speech.
What tells you? Do you think the Auschwitz Museum isn’t well-respected in Israel? Most English-language coverage in Israel seems to at least be prominently featuring the criticism over his statement.
Which party ran on a platform of murdering or displacing everyone in Gaza? Most Israeli voters vehemently disagree with parties that ran on considerably less extreme platforms than that. Half the reason for the emergency unity government was removing those less extreme extremists from decision-making positions.
I mean right-wing parties generally run on not allowing a Palestinian state to be created, and on settlement of the West bank and “hard on Gaza” policies. They’re not explicitly running on genociding Gaza, but that’s what these things mean.
I can’t find a recent poll about Israeli approval of the war (the most recent one I found was made in 19 November and had 88% approval), but the idea that Israelis are being forced to take part in this against their will is decidedly false; otherwise
Then why the move to pull the crazies out of cabinet? If what you’re saying is true, there isn’t a possible world where the public wouldn’t want the crazies in there to carry out the genocide they’ve been covertly voting for. Why would the public support Benny Gantz, a moderate on Palestine, coming into cabinet? Why would he be so far ahead in election polling?
People saying that they support a war with Hamas is very different from saying they support the murder or displacement of all the residents of Gaza.
A repercussion could also include him being removed from office if his constituents feel strongly about it. You use the example of Lindsay Graham. If America didn’t have such deep systemic racist issues, a violent military-centric culture, or a strong Christo-fascist element in society, he would probably be recalled. As it is, genocide Joe, our government and much of the population seem perfectly fine with eliminating the Palestinians. Recently there has been stronger push-back. That is nice to see, but we still have a long way to do before we can develop a good cultural response against genocide.
I don’t have any problem with there being consequences for his statement. I don’t even know what options his constituents have to remove him, to be honest. I just don’t think there’s only one conclusion to be drawn from him not being punished. Notably in the case of Graham, you talk about his constituents. For Azoulai it’s his culture. His constituents are 1700 people.
Do you think that all Americans support a holy war against Islam because Graham wasn’t punished? Presumably not.
Why do you ascribe the belief to all Israelis here?
I’m not saying all Americans support this unholy war, but not enough are outraged that I think it is a sign of deep cultural problems in our society. Trump is the chief symptom of our insanity. Israel is also a sick society, and that person saying those abhorrent things without any negative impact on his life is a symptom.
The key will be if anything happens to that person as a result. Will there be any repercussions for him? If not, it is likely a systematic issue in their culture.
It reminds me of the whole “If you let a Nazi stay in your bar, it will eventually become a Nazi bar” allegory.
Israel seems to already have become a Nazi bar, for quite a while even.
Speaking of systemic cultural issues.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
Yeah, definitely, the Palestinians are suffering immensely and have never had a means of finding justice for the harms they have suffered. I wrote this in another comment, but if the Israelis ever decide to pursue a path of healing instead of genocide, it is going to take a long time for the Palestinians to heal and recover from those harms.
What would happen? Israelis have freedom of expression and it’s unlikely his disgusting comments rise to the level of a crime. Would you call that an actionable threat? He’s about as close to decision-makers as we are. Like, when Lindsey Graham called this conflict a holy war against Islam, it was revolting but I doubt most were surprised that he wasn’t legally punished. The most likely punishment is public ridicule and revulsion because there are few cases where people face legal consequences for speech.
Yeah, and something tells me he isn’t gonna get these things.
What tells you? Do you think the Auschwitz Museum isn’t well-respected in Israel? Most English-language coverage in Israel seems to at least be prominently featuring the criticism over his statement.
It’s because at least 50% of Israelis agree with him. That’s the number of right wing voters.
What does “representative democracy” even mean amirite fellas
Which party ran on a platform of murdering or displacing everyone in Gaza? Most Israeli voters vehemently disagree with parties that ran on considerably less extreme platforms than that. Half the reason for the emergency unity government was removing those less extreme extremists from decision-making positions.
I mean right-wing parties generally run on not allowing a Palestinian state to be created, and on settlement of the West bank and “hard on Gaza” policies. They’re not explicitly running on genociding Gaza, but that’s what these things mean.
I can’t find a recent poll about Israeli approval of the war (the most recent one I found was made in 19 November and had 88% approval), but the idea that Israelis are being forced to take part in this against their will is decidedly false; otherwise
Military service is more-or-less mandatory in Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel
Then why the move to pull the crazies out of cabinet? If what you’re saying is true, there isn’t a possible world where the public wouldn’t want the crazies in there to carry out the genocide they’ve been covertly voting for. Why would the public support Benny Gantz, a moderate on Palestine, coming into cabinet? Why would he be so far ahead in election polling?
People saying that they support a war with Hamas is very different from saying they support the murder or displacement of all the residents of Gaza.
I see. I guess that does give me slightly more hope for the future.
A repercussion could also include him being removed from office if his constituents feel strongly about it. You use the example of Lindsay Graham. If America didn’t have such deep systemic racist issues, a violent military-centric culture, or a strong Christo-fascist element in society, he would probably be recalled. As it is, genocide Joe, our government and much of the population seem perfectly fine with eliminating the Palestinians. Recently there has been stronger push-back. That is nice to see, but we still have a long way to do before we can develop a good cultural response against genocide.
I don’t have any problem with there being consequences for his statement. I don’t even know what options his constituents have to remove him, to be honest. I just don’t think there’s only one conclusion to be drawn from him not being punished. Notably in the case of Graham, you talk about his constituents. For Azoulai it’s his culture. His constituents are 1700 people.
Do you think that all Americans support a holy war against Islam because Graham wasn’t punished? Presumably not. Why do you ascribe the belief to all Israelis here?
I’m not saying all Americans support this unholy war, but not enough are outraged that I think it is a sign of deep cultural problems in our society. Trump is the chief symptom of our insanity. Israel is also a sick society, and that person saying those abhorrent things without any negative impact on his life is a symptom.