- The Bible says Jesus died for our sins.
- Assuming that doesn’t mean some of our sins and it means all of our sins.
- Therefore, Hitler goes to Heaven too.
I’m more offended to be in Heaven in the first place. I mean, all the nutjobs were right after all? And only those nutjobs in my particular area of the world?
Imagine getting to watch Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Jimmy Swaggart realize that God saved trans people, gay people, atheists, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, communists, vegans, and even people who still drink Bud Light.
Give me an endless supply of popcorn and I’m entertained for at least an eon or two.
Sounds like they weren’t totally right. Take solace in that, I guess.
It’s just earth with infinitely more assholes
I dont know, the premise doesn’t mention a god. Maybe everyone is their own god with their own personal heaven.
For hitler this ment painting amateur paintings on most days and getting bdsm rape dominated by an elderly couple resembling his grandparents who are both wearing a kinky military uniform every other saterday.
If everyone who ever lived is there, it’s just an afterlife… And if literally everyone goes there, being offended that some people went there would be rather pointless
Me to my enemies in the afterlife: “you’ve got a lot of nerve being alive”
I’m highly offended that I got stuck in Christian heaven in the first place, and would register a complaint
No.
I don’t mind lax standards. I mind inconsistent ones.
To be fair, if the standard is “literally everyone gets in”, that isn’t actually inconsistent
Are they not saying that this rule is ok because it is lax and not inconsistent?
Offended? Nah. I’m just annoyed that the christians were right all along.
The guys pushing “if you masturbate or use a condom you go to hell” and use hell fear mongering as their entire ideology?
If it’s like OP says then we weren’t. That is not what the Bible teaches at all…
Other than the whole part where Solomon gives a litmus test to tell which parent is the real one and which is the false claimant and the false one was the one that cared about recognition even if the child died and the true parent was the one that cared more about the child living as its complete self even if that means being unknown to the child at all.
But yeah, all the parts surrounding it about the claimed divine parent who needs to be recognized or else his alleged children will suffer eternally do kind of conflict with both the wisdom of Solomon and OP’s hypothetical.
Buddy if the Christian conception of an afterlife is real I’m either gonna be chillin in the shade of a tree after a hard day’s work or whatever, or standing hand in hand around some multi sword mouthed geometric acid trip of a god saying “holy” on repeat in a trip that would put eating all the LSD in history to shame.
Either way who cares.
Acid might explain a lot of the biblical descriptions of angels. Eat a new variety of mushroom you found, sit down to continue writing down the ledger your master send you to write and instead fill the page with nonsensical rants.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
So you’re saying I have a chance to punch Hitler? 🤔
Lemons ----> Lemonade
–x–> LemonParty
I assume there’ll be a long long line
Probably multiple lines…
“Ok everybody, I need your attention please… Everyone wanting to punch Hitler in the face, please line up over here. If you want to kick him in the ball, please line up over there. Let’s keep this orderly, we’ve got lots of folks to get through today!”
Hey I want both but can’t decide
Well technically both lines could advance independently if you lay hitler out on the ground or a table or something.
A little offended, yeah. I definitely don’t want to be stuck in the same eternal plane of existence as Hitler.
I’d ask if I could go to the Medium Place instead and hang out with Mindy.
No cocaine, though.
Meh, was never my vice anyway. lol
Prob just reboot Derek for sport or something.
I was raised LDS and while I no longer practice any religion I still think the Mormon concept of heaven is an interesting one.
(Imma skip some of the finer details here for clarity - but I’m happy to explain further if anybody has questions.)
Mormons believe that (almost) everyone goes to heaven - eventually. Upon death, evil people go to Hell until they repent their sins. After truly repenting and recanting their hateful ways, their soul ascends to heaven. The LDS concept of Hell isn’t one of physical tortures - Hell is simply a perfect understanding of your sins - your own shame and regret, from truly understanding the pain you inflicted upon your spiritual siblings.
So ol’ Adolf would be left to stew in a celestial timeout, alone with the weight of his sins - from every petty insult to the pain of every child slaughtered by his command. Damned to remain there until he is truly, utterly sorry. Not the false sorrow seeking to relieve the pain of a guilty conscience, but the harrowing sorrow that comes only with the true recognition of one’s own responsibility and the willingness to do anything required to make amends and never sin again.
Any Hitler who emerged from Mormon Hell would be a very different person from the one who went in.
[Digression: regarding “almost” everyone going to heaven - if you want to be truly eternally damned in Mormon theology you have to follow a simple, two step process.
- Have a “perfect knowledge” of God - e.g. meet Him face-to-face.
- Act against Him anyway.
Mostly it’s Lucifer and his minions that qualify. Maybe Judas Iscariot too. Such souls are damned to “Outer Darkness” from which there is no release. Still not a place of fire and brimstone though.]
That’s sounds amazing!
The problematic bit here is if the person (say, Hitler, in this case) is a true psychopath. This is where the mind/body (or soul, if you prefer) dichotomy starts to fall apart. I do not believe that free will exists, but I can give a light version of this that doesn’t depend on a complete rejection of free will.
We know as a medical fact that a history of traumatic brain injury (tbi) has a strong correlation with violent and aggressive behavior. Over half the people in prisons for violent crime have a history of tbi, versus about 10% in the general public. We can find similar correlations to other events that are known to physically alter people’s brains, from malnutrition to childhood trauma to growing up in a system of racism and violence. These experiences literally and physically rewire brains and alter neuroanatomy. These neuroanatomical changes result in neuropsychological changes, which result in behavioral changes. Think about today’s story of the banking manager who was recently arrested for shoplifting a couple of hundred dollars worth of goods from Target. She is a kleptomaniac (not sure if that’s the current term, apologies if not). She has no more conscious control over her actions than a person with epilepsy has control over their seizures.
Now, if your physical form were to go away, those impulses would theoretically be gone. You couldn’t feel any guilt over them - you had virtually no control. If you keep your physical form (as some Catholics believe), you’d theoretically keep your neuroanatomy. Then your “repentance” would have to be god fixing your brain, as it were, which raises the question why he didn’t just do that in the first place.
Obviously there’s way more problems just around this subject than I’m getting into here - memories of trauma that altered your limbic system, genetic and epigenetic drivers of behavior… is there a “fix” for that? - but the root of the problem is that the religions, in order to identify a behavior as “sin,” have to make assumptions about behavioral plasticity and more importantly a behavioral driver separate and apart from the physical brain, that’s just implausible. The facts are simply incompatible with that kind of redemption.
Agreed! What’s the level of personal responsibility for sins (or virtues!) vs our surroundings or flukes of neurology.
The older I get the more tragedies I see and fewer villains.
In Mormon theology such influences are considered as well! The flip side of understanding your own sins is that others will understand them too - so if you killed someone during a psychotic break beyond your control, your victim will see and understand exactly what happened. It’s the truest form of empathy. Seeing through the eyes of everyone you ever interacted with, for good or ill.
This is the content I missed from Reddit
As a Christian Universalist, this is basically exactly what I hope for.
Not at all. Now I get to suplex force ghost Hitler.
Offended? I’ll be really happy! It means that I’ll get to meet all my family again, even though some of them were proper twats.
Much of what is the Christian Cinematic Universe is fanfic, which is to say its speculation based on clerical opinions and monastics that spent a lot of time doing menial labor and worldbuilding in their minds.
The scholarly consensus notes the is little actual information about Heaven, and much of what we have is not univocal (different, often conflicting opinions) and is based on Greek philosophers’ models of the universe, not scripture.
That said, Christians who go to Heaven (according to modern Evangelical ministries) don’t actually get to keep their identity. If you were to go to Heaven and meet Hitler, you wouldn’t recognize Hitler, or remember who Hitler was or why Hitler was relevent in mortal life. Nor would the spirit Hitler remember the events of his own life. Essentially, you are two pure spirits serving as God’s bonding particles.
As with social media TOS, the devil is (proverbially) in the details. There is no guarantee of your memories, the capacity to sense nature and enjoy your perceptions, the ability to reason, to learn, to experience. All these are features of the material world.
Your ministry will make up dogma on the spot to reassure you and keep you from reconsidering your faith, but ultimatrly, as Pope Francis even admits, Only God knows what happens in the afterlife, what of us still remains or if it exists at all.
