Itamar Ben Gvir, Israel’s far-right national security minister, has called for the execution of Palestinian prisoners to ease overcrowding in the country’s jails.

Writing on social media, he welcomed a decision by the Israeli army to build 936 additional prison places for “security prisoners”. “The additional construction will allow the prison service to take in more terrorists, and will bring a partial solution to the prison crisis that exists in the Shabak,” he said, referring to the Israeli Prison Service.

“The death penalty for terrorists is the right solution to the incarceration problem, until then - glad that the government approved the proposal I brought.”

During a visit by members of the Public Defender’s Office, squalid conditions were noted, including “intolerable overcrowding”, with less than three square metres of space per person, poor sanitary conditions, pest issues, inadequate ventilation, and a lack of basic necessities for the incarcerated.

  • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    I wonder if they will concentrate all of the prisoners in one spot before they implement Ben’s solution

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      8 months ago

      With so many prisoners it’s gotta be hard to process all of those death penalties. I wonder if there is a fast and efficient way to apply the death penalty. Maybe they can do it in groups

        • dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net
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          8 months ago

          When the Nazis were invading Eastern Europe prior to WWII they told the other European powers they only needed “lebensraum”-“living space.” This comment thread is pointing out the similarities between the actions of contemporary Israel against Palestinians with the actions of Nazi Germany against Jews and other groups they considered “undesirable.”

          • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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            8 months ago

            I know very well what it is. I just wrote the same thing in Hebrew. Why translate Lebensraum to Living Space instead of בית גידול?

            • dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net
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              8 months ago

              I can’t read Hebrew and it got translated to “habitat.” I assumed the question mark indicated a genuine request for clarity.

              • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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                8 months ago

                Me neither. One translator gave me that word.

                Another gives me גידו.

                Just want to add that I’m a native German speaker as well.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Why translate Lebensraum to Living Space instead of בית גידול?

              Most people here don’t speak Hebrew or German.

  • Alto@kbin.social
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    8 months ago

    We’ve started going full death camp yet people still don’t believe that there’s a genocide. There are no words to describe just how truly disgusting that is.

    • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      He even used the word solution. They don’t even give a fuck anymore

        • Arbic@feddit.de
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          8 months ago

          It’s just an intermediate solution. Why stop at the genocide of the Palestinians? They don’t like Iran either.

    • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      those people are saying that in bad faith. they’re wiping their asses with the memory of the holocaust, not you

    • Eheran@lemmy.world
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      Yes, that comparison is absurd. Don’t do that.

      30’000 death, including the terrorists mind you, in more than 6 months means roughly 160 per day. The numbers are hardly going up in the past months.

      Ausschwitz, one concentration camp out of many, saw more than 1 million people murdered in about 3 years, about 900 per day.

      • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        so when the entire population of gaza strip gets murdered is your argument gonna be “it’s not a holocaust because there were only 2.2 million Palestinians to begin with”

      • ABCDE@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Only pure death figures which match Auschwitz are actual genocides. Got you.

        (Fucking what?)

      • Drinvictus@discuss.tchncs.de
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        8 months ago

        See that’s where you are wrong. Calling evil by showing how it is similar to another evil isn’t trying to minimize one. Is it just about numbers? Their universities, schools, hospitals, records and cultures are being destroyed as we speak. Children are being starved. So you’re saying this isn’t evil enough? Comparing numbers is Israili propaganda at this point. Never again means never again for anyone.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        You can compare them in that they are both genocides. The Holocaust was certainly a genocide done on a much larger scale, especially near the end of Nazi Germany. But there isn’t a certain death count needed to count as a genocide, we have multiple international definitions to determine and (ideally) prevent them.

      • livus@mander.xyz
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        8 months ago

        Leaving aside the fact that it’s not the volume that defines genocide, what you’re saying doesn’t seem to take into account the way that genocide ramped up from a lower initial death rate. The Nazis weren’t killing anything like that in the first 6 months.

        • Aid agencies like UNICEF are saying that at the moment a child is wounded or killed every ten minutes in Gaza.

        • In 0.5 years the Gaza genocide has already killed about 1.5% of the population. By comparison the Bosnian genocide killed 3% of the population over 2 years.

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Yes, this comment is absurd. Don’t do that.

        If you’re arguing about volume when we’re talking about a fascist occupier murdering ethnic prisoners during a genocide, your argument the way the fuck off base.

      • betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        I refuse to believe that a sane, rational person would put forth such a braindead argument in good faith.

        (With my apologies to any braindead people and their families/friends for the unflattering use of the adjective.)

        • Eheran@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Comparing people that get round up and murdered in insane scales with people in a war zone getting notified about bombings and not leaving is the braindead argument to me.

          • betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Since your 160/day figure isn’t enough to make the cut, what’s the magic number to push them over the threshold and turn this atrocity into a full-blown crime against humanity? As long as they max out at the Holocaust’s daily average minus one, everything’s peachy? I have no illusions that any of the newly-minted war criminals in the IDF are going to read this and decide to do anything to stop it but an honest, competent observer must see similarities in the barbarism and motives.

            • Eheran@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              If we want to compare it to the Holocaust, then yes, the numbers need to be in the same region. That has nothing to do with the category genocide etc., for obvious reasons. The way people here argue is somewhat in bad faith, hence no need to answer.

              What similarities in the motives and barbarism? Who are these 2 comparable?

    • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Western Rulers: Listen, just cause they are building camps and moving Palestinians into them in large quantities just highlights the danger that the poor Israelis are in!

      Israel: Starts ordering suspiciously larges quantities of a certain pesticide

      Western Rulers: Obviously they are just trying to treat their fields, absolutely nothing wrong here. Nothing to see here, No Criticisms, we Veto the right to criticize or cover this further!

  • febra@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Soon they’ll start sending them to the showers. We’ve seen this before. Fascists never change

  • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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    8 months ago

    Reminder that even West Bank children who couldn’t possibly have any link to Hamas get thrown in jail, by incarcerators able to do whatever the fuck they want because, as they’re jailing people outside of their jurisdiction, and the Palestinian Authority has no means to stop it, they don’t have to answer to anyone.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/21/a-hidden-universe-of-suffering-the-palestinian-children-sent-to-jail

    Just thought you would appreciate the context.

  • NegativeInf@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    How do they define security prisoners in this context? Is this Gitmo or Aushwitz? Both are war crimes.

    Also, you would think these Israeli leaders would be more careful about using the word solution in the context of murdering the fuck out of your political prisoners.

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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      Since Palestinians have no human or civil rights under Israeli Occupation, they can be detained and convicted with no to little evidence. Subject only to military courts they have no fair trial and it’s quite normal to coerce (false) confessions. This includes children.

      Military Courts - B’TSelem

      Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests - Amnesty International

      • NegativeInf@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        After spending the morning reading about the history of Zionism and direct quotes from a bunch of those dudes, honestly, your comment sounds like everything is going exactly to plan.

        'In 1938, Ben Gurion described the conflict with the Arabs as “in its essence a political one… politically we are the aggressors and they [the Arabs] defend themselves.” Israeli historian Benny Morris affirms Ben Gurion’s description, saying: “Ben-Gurion, of course, was right” and goes on to describe Zionism as “a colonizing and expansionist ideology and movement” whose “ideology and practice were necessarily and elementally expansionist.” Morris describes the Zionist goal of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine as necessarily displacing and dispossessing the Arab population. The practical issue of establishing a Jewish state in a majority non-Jewish and Arab region was a fundamental issue for the Zionist movement. Revisionist Zionist Ze’ev Jabotinsky described the notion of “transfer” (the Zionist euphemism for ethnic cleansing of the Arab Palestinian population) as a “brutal expulsion” which could resolve this challenge. The idea of transfer was not unique to Revisionist Zionism, in fact, as explained by Morris, “the idea of transferring the Arabs out… was seen as the chief means of assuring the stability of the ‘Jewishness’ of the proposed Jewish State”.

        According to Morris, the idea of ethnically cleansing the land of Palestine was to play a large role in Zionist ideology from the inception of the movement. He explains that “transfer” was “inevitable and inbuilt into Zionism” and that a land which was primarily Arab could not be transformed into a Jewish state without displacing the Arab population. Further, the stability of the Jewish state could not be ensured given the Arab population’s fear of displacement. He explains that this would be the primary source of conflict between the Zionist movement and the Arab population.’

        Mind you, that’s Wikipedia, but none the less.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Yeah, Transfer has been part of Zionism since 1882. Books by New Historians definitely go into much more detail and sources than any news article.

          The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha

          A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe

          The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe

          The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe

          The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim

          The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Closer to Guantamino Bay, but worse. I don’t think Guantamino has a history of abuse and torture of children like the Israeli military prisons.

    • chaogomu@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      Closer to Gitmo, in that a percentage of the prisoners are actually a threat to “peace” and have committed various crimes. Also like Gitmo a percentage are only in there because their neighbor wanted to steal their land.

      • livus@mander.xyz
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        We will never even know if anyone in Guantanamo is even a terrorist though.

        You just assume they are because that’s what Rumsfeld and Cheney told you.

        But without due process there’s no actual way of determining it.

  • Kairos@lemmy.today
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    8 months ago

    The answer to prison/jail overcrowding is to release prisoners. Allways. If you’re imprisoning so many people that you can’t actually hold all of them, you’re imprisoning too many people.

    • SadSadSatellite @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 months ago

      And the answer to vacant cells is to congragulate the population on their low crime rate, but the for profit system in the US just finds reasons to put more people in jail and keep them there longer.

  • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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    Never thought I’d see the ‘cycle of abuse’ play out with the fucking Holocaust, jfc

    • betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Hurt people hurt people Genocided people genocide people.

      Learning from other peoples’ mistakes/crimes against humanity has never been our strong suit.

  • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
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    The U.S. needs to cut ties with Israel and back away from them. They are not allies. They have been using the U.S. for decades due to our gullible myth-obsessed politicians being heavily lobbied by them. If money were removed from politics, the relationship would dissolve almost immediately.

    We get absolutely nothing of value from our relationship with Israel. There is no special strategic advantage as we have bases, NATO countries and allies nearby as well as multiple carrier groups in the Med. Our commerce with them is not special in any way. So, why give them billions a year and stand by their side as they commit genocide and start fights with their neighbors?

    We should have no business there except, perhaps, to protect innocent people from genocide.

  • PhAzE@lemmy.ca
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    8 months ago

    Such little respect for human life is disgusting. Killing in the name of overcrowding is not valid reason to murder.

  • Jeena@jemmy.jeena.net
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    8 months ago

    I’m sure the end solution to this problem will be as cheap and efficient as zyklon-b.