Supporting AES does not mean blindly upholding every action taken by every leader of every AES country. The “tankies” that do so are made of straw in the minds of liberals. Rather, it is usually those that denounce “tankies” that make a dogmatic error of reducing AES countries purely to their leaders, and not the hundreds of millions of Marxists and Communists that work and run the AES countries.
Even the CPC’s official stance on Stalin and Mao is “70% good, 30% bad” each.
When someone does tankie things, it is valid to call them a tankie. Quacks like a duck and all that…
Also, I had to google ‘AES communism’ to figure out wtf you were talking about. American Education Service? Advanced Encryption Standard? AES the energy company? Define your acronyms and abbreviations, everybody. AES stands for ‘actually existing socialism’ in this context.
I don’t know what “does tankie things” means. The people that think Stalin, Mao, etc have done nothing wrong whatsoever are practically non-existent. The closest to genuinely evil “communists” would be the Gonzaloists that defend the Peruvian Shining Path, and frequently Pol Pot as well, but even suggesting that it’s a great thing that the USSR provided free and high quality healthcare and education gets you labeled a tankie instantly.
AES refers to Actually Existing Socialism, yes, it’s an acronym used for states like Cuba that have Socialism in the real world. Marxists use it frequently when talking about existing examples of Marxist application, without having to list every country that has some form of Socialism in place.
Look, the USSR had its merits, as you mentioned and I’m sure there are various AES systems working well in the current world. I know because I live in one. But there is prevalent tankie behavior throughout Lemmy, concentrated mostly in your instance and Hexbear, where people do actually defend dictators, simply because they called themselves communists (or in the case of Putin because… USA bad therefore Russia good?). They defend them, cognizant of the harm they have caused. Tankies are.the epitome of ‘the ends justify the means’. But when people defend authoritarian regimes, we need to call them out and fight them, regardless of professed ideology.
If by AES you’re talking about Western European countries, that’s not what I mean. Marxists do not consider those Socialist, as they are driven by Capitalism and fund their safety nets through expropriating wealth from the Global South, such as through outsourcing and debt trapping with IMF loans. Marxists call that process “Imperialism,” and the biggest Imperialist country is no doubt the United States currently.
Secondly, I need to know what you mean by “defending dictators.” There’s a difference between pointing out myths about AES countries and blindly upholding them simply due to the fact that they considered themselves to be Socialist. Reducing the logic of defending AES countries to purely nominal analysis is condescending. As an example, one can read Is the Red Flag Flying? Political Economy of the Soviet Union and come to the conclusion that the victories in AES stated were real working class victories achieved through Socialism, and the struggled faced by those building Socialism are often universal and must be learned from, and that requires accurately analyzing them.
As for Putin, I can certify that nobody on Hexbear or Lemmy.ml likes him, only the fact that Russia currently stands against the US Empire, which Marxists see as the current greatest evil. If the US Empire ever toppled and Russia no longer played an antagonistic role towards US Imperialism, you’d see immediately condemnation of the Russian Federation at a universal level, and not just due to their horribly decayed Capitalist system.
So, no, Marxists that uphold AES through a critical lens, rather than accepting mainstream western views, are not the epitome of “the ends justify the means.” Rather, they believe the version of ends and means that is commonly accepted as truth in the west isn’t particularly historically accurate. Ask any of them what they genuinely want, such as what democratic structures, how they wish to achieve Socialism, etc and you’ll likely agree with them.
Supporting AES does not mean blindly upholding every action taken by every leader of every AES country. The “tankies” that do so are made of straw in the minds of liberals. Rather, it is usually those that denounce “tankies” that make a dogmatic error of reducing AES countries purely to their leaders, and not the hundreds of millions of Marxists and Communists that work and run the AES countries.
Even the CPC’s official stance on Stalin and Mao is “70% good, 30% bad” each.
When someone does tankie things, it is valid to call them a tankie. Quacks like a duck and all that…
Also, I had to google ‘AES communism’ to figure out wtf you were talking about. American Education Service? Advanced Encryption Standard? AES the energy company? Define your acronyms and abbreviations, everybody. AES stands for ‘actually existing socialism’ in this context.
I don’t know what “does tankie things” means. The people that think Stalin, Mao, etc have done nothing wrong whatsoever are practically non-existent. The closest to genuinely evil “communists” would be the Gonzaloists that defend the Peruvian Shining Path, and frequently Pol Pot as well, but even suggesting that it’s a great thing that the USSR provided free and high quality healthcare and education gets you labeled a tankie instantly.
AES refers to Actually Existing Socialism, yes, it’s an acronym used for states like Cuba that have Socialism in the real world. Marxists use it frequently when talking about existing examples of Marxist application, without having to list every country that has some form of Socialism in place.
Look, the USSR had its merits, as you mentioned and I’m sure there are various AES systems working well in the current world. I know because I live in one. But there is prevalent tankie behavior throughout Lemmy, concentrated mostly in your instance and Hexbear, where people do actually defend dictators, simply because they called themselves communists (or in the case of Putin because… USA bad therefore Russia good?). They defend them, cognizant of the harm they have caused. Tankies are.the epitome of ‘the ends justify the means’. But when people defend authoritarian regimes, we need to call them out and fight them, regardless of professed ideology.
If by AES you’re talking about Western European countries, that’s not what I mean. Marxists do not consider those Socialist, as they are driven by Capitalism and fund their safety nets through expropriating wealth from the Global South, such as through outsourcing and debt trapping with IMF loans. Marxists call that process “Imperialism,” and the biggest Imperialist country is no doubt the United States currently.
Secondly, I need to know what you mean by “defending dictators.” There’s a difference between pointing out myths about AES countries and blindly upholding them simply due to the fact that they considered themselves to be Socialist. Reducing the logic of defending AES countries to purely nominal analysis is condescending. As an example, one can read Is the Red Flag Flying? Political Economy of the Soviet Union and come to the conclusion that the victories in AES stated were real working class victories achieved through Socialism, and the struggled faced by those building Socialism are often universal and must be learned from, and that requires accurately analyzing them.
As for Putin, I can certify that nobody on Hexbear or Lemmy.ml likes him, only the fact that Russia currently stands against the US Empire, which Marxists see as the current greatest evil. If the US Empire ever toppled and Russia no longer played an antagonistic role towards US Imperialism, you’d see immediately condemnation of the Russian Federation at a universal level, and not just due to their horribly decayed Capitalist system.
So, no, Marxists that uphold AES through a critical lens, rather than accepting mainstream western views, are not the epitome of “the ends justify the means.” Rather, they believe the version of ends and means that is commonly accepted as truth in the west isn’t particularly historically accurate. Ask any of them what they genuinely want, such as what democratic structures, how they wish to achieve Socialism, etc and you’ll likely agree with them.