Teachers will be forced to tell parents that their child is questioning their gender even if the young person objects under new guidance for schools in England, the equalities minister has indicated.
Imagine being a kid under constant surveillance. Boomers really are all helicopter parents if they vote shit like this through. That will fuck up their kids and grandkids big time.
Bloomers are currently aged 57-75. It’s Gen X (46-56yrs old) and Millenials (25-40yrs old) that currently have most of the kids in school. Agree with the rest of your comment though.
As a millennial with a child, I’m so glad my parents didn’t have half the shit available to them that my generation has. Even in a lot of daycares the parents can watch the CCTV live of their child. Literally just sit there at work and watch their child.
And that’s before you get into tracking when kids get phones.
Boomers are born 1945-65ish. Usually they do not have kids in school anynore. This is the younger generation. X or millennials
Contact information for the person responsible
God damn… I looked this person up, expecting some asshole white guy,… and it’s a black woman. Hate and bigotry really transcends race and gender.
French teachers when girls forget the e at the end of adjectives.
I love how people who aren’t part of the community think they know what’s best for the community. Fucking assholes, outing kids into what could be a potentially dangerous situation, depending on the parents views.
I’d love to out their deepest, most well kept secrets, see how they feel.
It’s disgusting how all these ‘protections’ they put in place will do more harm than good. You can tell it’s coming from an anti trans standpoint as they’re trying to scare people into staying hidden.
Fuck the government.
Don’t blame the government. Name the people making these decisions.
I blame them all. The idiots proposing this shit and the government agreeing it’s a good idea. They’re all morons.
Government employees shouldn’t be keeping secrets from the people they are meant to serve.
So you think a teacher serves only the parents and not the child?
They’re serving both by educating. They aren’t serving by keeping secrets from parents.
The government forces us to send our kids to government run education centers at the threat of taking them from us. The least they can do is tell us what’s going on those 6-8 hours a day we are forced to give them our kids.
No, I think things like this that can cause a potential dangerous situation shouldn’t be told. Coming out about anything, sexually, gender identity etc is a personal choice. Taking that from someone is a form of control.
If a teacher tries any of this shit when my kiddo is in school, I’m gonna lose it with them. It’s up to my child if and when they feel comfortable telling me those things, if they ever realise they aren’t straight or aren’t the gender they were born as. It’s their right to choose to tell me this. Not someone else. Just because they’re children, doesn’t mean we have rights to know everything. Their privacy is important too. Children are people, not possessions. They deserve respect. We don’t demand someone’s boss tells their family if they find out this stuff. We don’t demand higher education teachers of over 18s to do this either. Just because their minors does not mean were entitled to know their private thoughts and feelings. Unless a child has admitted to thoughts of suicide/ harming themselves or others, I don’t believe we should be told.
If they think a child has behavioural issues that need looking into, fine. That’s good information. But outing someone, no matter their age is wrong and potentially dangerous. Luckily there’s parents out there who will be accepting if they get information like this. But unfortunately there’s parents who won’t be, and depending on what those parents are like, it could result in some seriously bad situations arising.
I know my own parent was less then impressed when she found out Im pansexual. And they tried the whole ‘but kids’ and ‘its just a phase thing.’ which isn’t as bad as some people/ children would get. But being invalidated doesn’t feel good, especially on something that isn’t an opinion, but a fact. Being told you’re wrong for your sexuality or gender identity can do a lot of damage to people.
This is stupid. It shouldn’t be a thing. I’m sick of the ‘but the children’ bullshit the government keep pushing as a cover for wanting more control. No end to end encryption, because we want to protect the children. Our children, because we want to protect the children. Access to your private messages, the children.
It’s all bullshit they use to get people on board because children are an easy pawn to use. The government’s of the world need to stop using children in pawns of their stupid games and just be honest. But how likely are people to listen if they say ‘we want more control’ over ‘we are trying to protect the children!’I’ll say it again. Fuck the government.
If a teacher tries any of this shit when my kiddo is in school, I’m gonna lose it with them. It’s up to my child if and when they feel comfortable telling me those things, if they ever realise they aren’t straight or aren’t the gender they were born as. It’s their right to choose to tell me this. Not someone else. Just because they’re children, doesn’t mean we have rights to know everything
If the kid is socially transitioning at school, I think that falls under behavior parents should know. Same if the kids are being shitheads in class or getting beat up at recess.
Weren’t you just talking about how you believe in small government and oppose authoritarianism in another post and yet here you are demanding that the government force educators to invade children’s privacy by spying on them and relaying their findings to parents?
demanding that the government force educators to invade children’s privacy by spying on them
Where did I say this? Please provide a quote of mine.
Ahh, more reasons for people to leave teaching.
Honestly, I think the only teachers I know that are still teachers today is because they’re under the thumb of this system - specialised training that isn’t much use elsewhere, so they have to stay and continue to work in increasingly impoverished conditions.
Any teachers reading this - I’m sorry for what you have to go through, and even as a childless individual, I am greatful for the sacrifices you’re making to ensure the future of our society.
You act like zero teachers agree with this shit…
That’s the point, run out anyone that’s not on the same “team”
Can someone explain how/why the Brits appear to be turning into Texans?
We’ve imported the culture wars from the US.
There’s a range of anti trans lobbyists in the UK that are US funded, and our government is hoping that if you scare people about migrants and trans people for long enough, we’ll forget that it’s actually the Tory party that is destroying the country and vote them back in.
deleted by creator
Teachers are public servants.
If they’re hiding necessary information about my kid from me, that’s not serving the tax payers. That’s government employees determining decisions for kids that aren’t their own, without taking any risk for how these decisions turn out.
Estimates of child abuse range from 10-20% of all school age children in the UK. Any person who is working in a classroom (including TAs and volunteers) has had some amount of safeguarding training to help mitigate the risk of harm to children.
It is literally our/their job to help prevent or mitigate harm that might come to children in their home lives, and teachers, admins, and safeguarding leads make decisions every day based on a clear and well-monitored framework to do so. This decision, made by people with little or no experience in the field, spits in the face of all of that.
Estimates of child abuse range from 10-20% of all school age children in the UK. Any person who is working in a classroom (including TAs and volunteers) has had some amount of safeguarding training to help mitigate the risk of harm to children.
Exactly. “ALL SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.” We already have all these ways that teachers are obligated to report abuse if they suspect it. Why do we need to carve out special treatment of the LGBTQIA2S+ communities? They’re just humans. If teachers suspect abuse, they should report it, whether it’s for LGBTQIA2S+ or straight cis kids.
It is literally our/their job to help prevent or mitigate harm
No your job is to be a public servant and educate kids. It’s the parents responsibility to ensure their kids are safe.
This decision, made by people with little or no experience in the field, spits in the face of all of that.
Because it comes to parental rights, and limiting the influence government employees push on our youth.
LGBTQIA2S+, good one. I think they prefer 2SLGBTQIA+ because it elevates indigenous communities. I don’t miss the social sciences, it’s fair to say.
I was questioning the gender of my teachers all the time but they did not go whining to my parents about it. Ill give them that.
Why would they not tell their parents? Genuine question from someone out of the loop. If my kid was questioning I would prefer I know, right? The school has the kid for the majority of their time awake during the school year. This makes sense to me.
deleted by creator
Because bigots have literally tortured their kids over being queer forever. Kids who don’t feel safe coming out at home usually have a good reason from fear of abuse to becoming homeless.
Because there are deeply bigoted parents that would hit their child if they found out. Maybe try to see it from their viewpoint?
I’ve been arguing exactly this with someone else somewhere in this thread. There are children who would be abused/kicked out of their home over this sort of thing.
I’d happy waiting until my child is ready to tell me to learn of certain aspects about them if it means protecting another from harm of this sort.
The problem I feel is the very parents demanding to know this information are the exact parents you wouldn’t want knowing this information for their child’s sake.
That’s why I commented a question asking for rationale behind a different viewpoint. Thanks stranger, that makes sense.
Removed by mod
That’s completely besides the point. Teachers are responsible for a child’s wellbeing when they are looking after them, and as part of that tbr child might bring that up to their teacher and the child should be able to trust in that teacher to keep it from parents who might react negatively to that news, much like you would a doctor.
This law doesn’t change the education the child receives it only serves to put trans kids at risk of abuse from their parents.
deleted by creator
Educators and the government should not be outing students.
Removed by mod
Kids are not property. They are their own people and whether you like it or not they can be gay or trans. You can’t beat them out of being queer.
If your kid doesn’t feel safe telling you who they are the that’s on you.
Removed by mod
Wait, you think if a student confides in a teacher that they’re trans, the teacher has the power to authorize bottom surgery? What?
I don’t understand how you have reached this conclusion. As someone who is a member of the trans community none of these decisions you talked about are made lightly. I understand as a parent wanting to know what is going on with your child but the child’s mental state should be priority above anytime else. No one in the trans community wants convince anyone they are trans. That is something they must find on their own.
Removed by mod
I’m sorry, but I gave that video am honest listen and still can’t understand how this relates to what I’m saying. There may be instances of these incidents happening and they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. But this is an overreach of the child’s privacy which is why we’re here. One of the first thing young women victims of sexual assault say is “don’t tell me dad,” for fear of what that would mean for them at home. If a child says they’ve been having feelings that they don’t understand themselves yet and they don’t want to have their parents know, they have a reason. Not every home is safe and something like this will lead to children killing themselves. Not every parent can be trusted to make that decision to do what’s best in these situations, so we must create institutions that can at least recognize when that is necessary for the safety of the child. We are not advocating for parents to not be a part of the discussion. We want the safety of every child to be considered in this decision.
We have the same goal here of safety for children. Let’s tackle grooming wherever it is, but this won’t make the situation any better for the children who need this safety. This won’t work the way you believe it will, and we have evidence. I have way too much going on in my life at the moment to do a real deep dive to get the information you need. But I’m hopeful we can make this country better for everyone.
deleted by creator
That is very valid. And I understand why you’d want to know anytime you can do to help your child. A hardline approach isn’t the way though. Coming out is a very personal experience and as long as your doing your job as a parent they should be willing to do that when they are ready. Another part of being a parent is allowing your child to grow no matter what that means. Instead of a beautiful tree that can provide happiness and joy for themselves and everyone around them as well, they may end up as a sad houseplant in a pot that’s too small. At the end of the day I think we have two different philosophies on life and being parents but we can find something that is more beneficial than harmful, and from a personal place this is going to have terrible consequences.
Parents shouldn’t get absolute dominion over a human being just because. At some point society is also raising and protecting all children.
deleted by creator
Is this a serious reply?
“Who from society” would be people like the child’s teachers, counselors, friends, relatives, mentors, etc.
Funny you mention red-herrings and extremes and then go on to talk about how we’ll all be living under a Saudi-like dictatorship if teachers don’t snitch on kids to their parents about something like personal identity.
No. Absolutely fucking not. Full stop. My child, my choices. Period. End of story? Don’t like it? Pound sand.
No it’s “absolutely fucking not” a serious reply? I suspected as much.
Removed by mod
Good for you I guess? How many times has that landed you in jail so far?
ok, so they have to send out a welcome letter to parents or whatever.
not newsworthy
Good. Things shouldn’t be hidden from parents.
Given that there are plenty of parents who are transphobic and will in fact do irreparable damage to the children in question… no.
and will in fact do irreparable damage to the children in question
Well, yeah… that’s the whole point of the law.
Oh no no no, it’s to HELP them you see. They’re just MISGUIDED! /s
Yeah, any time someone says “for the children” or “because of terrorists / criminals” I immediately think “what fuckery are you trying to fob off on us now?”
Like most things in life, it depends on the kind of people the parents are.
The ability to have unprotected sex doesn’t give anyone special powers, or make them a better person by default.
Some parents are awful.
And the non-awful parents are probably already going to know something is up anyway, or have the sort of relationship where the kid is comfortable telling them.
So this law is specifically designed to help awful parents be more awful to their trans kids.
You do understand that there are parents who would make their children homeless (or worse) over issues of sexuality and gender right?
Is it that important to be able to snoop on every facet of your child’s life that you support turning what should’ve been a safespace for children who find themselves in the above scenario into yet another place they’re forced to hide.
Also, if you’re at the point where you’re resorting to using the law to force secrets out of your children, rather than having them trust you enough to just tell you, you should probably question your relationship with your children.
You do understand that there are parents who would make their children homeless (or worse) over issues of sexuality and gender right?
And there should be programs for these youths to help them out.
Is it that important to be able to snoop on every facet of your child’s life that you support turning what should’ve been a safespace for children who find themselves in the above scenario into yet another place they’re forced to hide.
You want government employees determining whats okay for the kids, but have parents take any repercussions. Either parents are responsible for their kids decisions, or teachers, can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Also, if you’re at the point where you’re resorting to using the law to force secrets out of your children
Therapists have an obligation for confidentiality, teachers are public servants, they should serve the tax payers.
Holy shit. You’re seriously arguing that children losing access to their homes and families homeless is fine because “there are programs to help them out”!
Your interpretation of my saying that we should invest in programs to help out the homeless use, as instead me saying it’s fine is a reflection on your poor reading comprehension.
I mean I’m reading the same thing they did and it’s not that unfavourable an interpretation of what you said.
If anything this comment only doubles down on it. You’ve already assumed the kids are going to be homeless, rather than the point I was making that there are times where this law will 100% conflict with a teacher’s safe-guarding duty, yet they will be forced by law to endanger the child anyway.
f anything this comment only doubles down on it. You’ve already assumed the kids are going to be homeless,
I didn’t assume that, the person I was replying to gave me that scenario.
Gotta read the chain homie.
I am the guy you were replying when you said that “homie”
I gave you that question. It wasn’t a scenario where a child is already homeless, it was that the implications of this law would drive children in that situation into homelessness.
Your reply to that there was thrte should be programs to help them, which you elaborate to mean the homeless. You’ve told me you’re so attached to this idea that you’ve already discounted the option of withholding this information for the sake of a child’s safety and wellbeing, which tells me enough about what you think.
Exactly how are these kids meant to find out about these programs to help them if there’s literally nobody they know that they’re allowed to disclose this information to without their parents immediately finding out about it?
Posters, like we have in a lot of government buildings, saying ‘if you’re experiencing home insecurity, use this resource’
Fucking easy, dude. Once again, you make it seem so special that it’s the + community experiencing homelessness. It doesn’t matter, they’re people too. Straight kids experiencing homelessness and + community need the same thing - a roof over their head.
You say “government employee” like as though it’s a tax collector you’re putting in charge of these kids.
Are they not government employees?
They’re supposed to protect your child’s safety, even from you if required.
I agree with this and it’s the same in the U.S. Once again - it’s to defend against abuse by parents, whether it’s a straight cis male or a trans woman. We don’t need special rules - abuse is abuse.
Yes, because children (without the aid of parents) can afford a therapist. That’s your worst take so far.
Schools have therapists and counselors.
Also, you missed the second part there where you can bypass all of this by simply fostering an environment where your child feels safe to tell you this in the first place. If your child isn’t telling you something that fundemental about themselves, it’s because they don’t feel safe to do so.
I agree. I don’t think it’s up to government agents to self determine this situation in the family, though. If teachers suspect abuse, they’re obligated to report it.
Posters, like we have in a lot of government buildings, saying ‘if you’re experiencing home insecurity, use this resource’
Fucking easy, dude. Once again, you make it seem so special that it’s the + community experiencing homelessness. It doesn’t matter, they’re people too. Straight kids experiencing homelessness and + community need the same thing - a roof over their head.
Firstly, I made that comment before you elaborated on the idea that your “programs” referred to programs to help the homeless. Of course that kind of generalised “hone insecurity” helpline is going to be available, but why do we have to start from the idea of them getting kicked out in the first place.
As I’ve said in other comments, you are so committed to the idea that all parents must know all to such an extent that you don’t even consider the possibility that many children could be saved from homelessness simply by discretion offered by a teacher as a safeguarding agent.
You’re right that LGBT+ kids aren’t special in regards to being homeless, but this conversation right here, right now isn’t about that. You’re just pulling an “All Lives Matter” on this conversation as if that’s some epic comeback.
Are they not government employees?
They are government employees, bur acting like all government employees are exactly the same is again a really bloody stupid take.
Again, teachers are trained not just to teach, but to safeguard your children from all sorts of things.
I agree with this and it’s the same in the U.S. Once again - it’s to defend against abuse by parents, whether it’s a straight cis male or a trans woman. We don’t need special rules - abuse is abuse.
And yet by ousting a child like this to their parents by force of law, like you’re supporting, you throw that child into a potentially abusive situation that could’ve been avoided.
It’s like handing the school bully a stack full of blackmail on a student and expecting them not to abuse it.
Schools have therapists and counselors.
Therapists and Counselors that they have to be referred to by their teachers or parents, the exact people they won’t tell because they can’t trust them.
EDIT - Actually there’s one other bit I didn’t think about typing this. Not all disclosures are deliberate. A teacher could overhear this and now be obligated to bring hell down upon a child without them being aware of what’s coming, which I’d argue is even worse. No therapists or councillors are gonna help with that.
I agree. I don’t think it’s up to government agents to self determine this situation in the family, though. If teachers suspect abuse, they’re obligated to report it.
So you’d rather it get to the point of abuse before a teacher can do something about it?
It’s not even just about self-evaluation - if a child disclosed this to a teacher under the belief they would be safeguarded, the teacher would be legally obligated to say it to the parents even if that child told the teacher the exact nature of their family dynamics and the potential abuse this information could lead to.
Tell you what, it must be great living in your world of black and white where you never have to consider the downstream ramifications your broad generalisations produce.
but why do we have to start from the idea of them getting kicked out in the first place.
Because y’alls argument is always ‘these kids will instantly get abused then kicked out!’ and making that some sort of gotcha, like I’m pro-homeless youth.
As I’ve said in other comments, you are so committed to the idea that all parents must know all to such an extent that you don’t even consider the possibility that many children could be saved from homelessness simply by discretion offered by a teacher as a safeguarding agent.
And, as I’ve said, that’s outside the scope of teaching. Teachers are required by law to report abuse, outside of that they should be expected to tell parents about the behavior of their kids.
but this conversation right here, right now isn’t about that. You’re just pulling an “All Lives Matter” on this conversation as if that’s some epic comeback.
As I’ve said and you apparently can’t grasp - we have these protections for EVERYONE, why are you trying to carve out special cases for the + community? reporting suspected abuse of a gay kid is the same as reporting it for a straight kid. They’re on the same form, what do you think, the gay kid has a pink abuse form?
bur acting like all government employees are exactly the same is again a really bloody stupid take.
It doesn’t matter if they’re the same. They’re government employees, which are inherently supposed to serve the tax payers, not take their kids and have secret meetings with them.
Again, teachers are trained not just to teach, but to safeguard your children from all sorts of things.
If my kid breaks his leg biking, is it on the teachers to safeguard my kids? If my kid gets cancer, is it on the teachers to provide medical support?
Teachers have a job, and they’re pushing to be outside that scope. Teachers aren’t there to keep secrets from parents.
Therapists and Counselors that they have to be referred to by their teachers or parents, the exact people they won’t tell because they can’t trust them.
“I want a therapist” - see, don’t need to say anything about wanting to be called LaQuanda instead of Jimmy. This is really fucking basic stuff, dude. You just want an excuses to have teachers take on the role of parenting for these kids, without having the actual responsibility for them. That’s worse for educators, and parents.
So you’d rather it get to the point of abuse before a teacher can do something about it?
You can literally say that about any abuse situation. I can’t file a domestic abuse charge on my partner because I missed a bill payment and I think one day she may slap me because of it.
Tell you what, it must be great living in your world of black and white where you never have to consider the downstream ramifications your broad generalisations produce.
That’s what you’re doing. You just think anytime there’s a kid who doesn’t tell his parent something, it must be abusive. Teachers aren’t responsible for their students lives, parents are. Stop trying to make it so these government agents don’t respond to the taxpayers wants and actively fight against the people they’re supposed to serve.
“I want a therapist” - see, don’t need to say anything about wanting to be called LaQuanda instead of Jimmy. This is really fucking basic stuff, dude. You just want an excuses to have teachers take on the role of parenting for these kids, without having the actual responsibility for them. That’s worse for educators, and parents.
If you think “I want a therapist” will get the kid a therapist with nothing else said or done, I think it’s you that’s naive. Even if it’s a school’s therapist, those resources are limited in scope, and assessment of need would be carried out.
It’s true that this would be more confidential, but I am surprised that you’re up for this considering this is another government employee quite literally having secret meetings with your child, and would still result in you not being told anything.
You can literally say that about any abuse situation. I can’t file a domestic abuse charge on my partner because I missed a bill payment and I think one day she may slap me because of it.
I think you and I both know that’s not the same, nor carries the same weight as potentially being abused and kicked out of your home due to being ousted as LGBT+.
If there is a reasonable suspicion that disclosing that information could lead to abuse, and not disclosing it wouldn’t, I’d much rather those “government employees” err on the side of not waiting until they’ve introduced a child into an abusive situation before doing something about it.
That’s what you’re doing. You just think anytime there’s a kid who doesn’t tell his parent something, it must be abusive. Teachers aren’t responsible for their students lives, parents are. Stop trying to make it so these government agents don’t respond to the taxpayers wants and actively fight against the people they’re supposed to serve.
I don’t think anytime a child doesn’t want their parent to be told something it is abusive. What I don’t want is a law that creates a situation where the above is true, and makes the situation worse.
I’m pinpointing on this as an example, because it’s a realistic scenario that points out that a universal disclosure law isn’t a good idea if you actually want to protect children, because it isn’t always the just outside world that could harm them.
They aren’t fighting against the people they’re supposed to serve. Their ability is foster the people of the future, and that includes safeguarding them from harm, including that introduced by the child’s parents.
Plus, are you forgetting that these children will one day be those very tax-payers, who may very well be thankful that their school acted in their best interest?
Parents should be aware of what is going on in their kids’ lives.
This means being a parent and actively being involved in their life. It does not mean abusing the trust that kids give to teachers, councilors, therapists and other adults they might confide in.
who said anything about therapists? Teachers are servants for the tax payers.
Therapists have a commitment to confidentiality in almost all circumstances.
Are they not there to serve their students, or do they only serve the parents?
They’re government employees, paid by tax payers to educate their kids.
Yes, they’re the ones being served, and the government and their employees have lost sight of that.
Well, at least you’re honest about thinking children don’t deserve to have anyone in power looking out for their interests when they conflict with their parents’.
Even things kids specifically do not want their parents to know because they have good reasons to believe it will lead to their parents abusing them?
If the parents are abusive, then cps (or local equal) needs to be involved
So increase the likelihood for abuse but then wait until after these children are abused to do something is what you’re saying?
You realise that means letting it get to the point of abuse right?
You’re basically saying that if a child fears letting their parents know something about them could lead to their abuse, they have to hide it and live in fear and distrust until they turn 18 and can run away right?
The kinds of things that some parents bully, punish, disown and/or murder their children for should very much be hidden from them if the child chooses to hide it. It’s no one else’s business and, if the child has not yet told them themselves, breaking their confidence is an attempt to ruin their life and quite possibly end it.
This is stochastic terrorism from this fascist government, desperate for any distraction at all from their kleptocratic ways.
“Teachers should tell parents if their kid wants to be called cindy instead of timmy”
You: “Literally a stochastic terrorist fascist government”
Not keeping secrets from parents is terrorism?
You guys will be banning books like Florida next if you don’t nip this fascist bullshit in the bud right now.
