A district judge in Wisconsin has sided with an 11-year-old trans girl over her use of the girls’ toilets and temporarily blocked school officials from preventing her access.
Good! Republicans need to get over their obsession with trans children’s genitals.
While this is welcome news, it’s also depressing that we live in a timeline stupid enough that bathroom panics are enough of a thing that there are laws on the books like this to be struck down by judges (and of course, the fact that other judges are likely to reverse this ruling).
Would you be ok with 17 year old boys to use the girls toilets at school if they just say that they identify as a girl?
What is the issue you have with it, really? You think that people are going to go into the bathroom and do something nefarious?
Before asking us why we think it’s okay, let’s really drill down into what you’re so worried about.
Well if they aren’t a boy then it wouldn’t matter and I would be fine with my daughter sharing a locker room/bathroom. I’m more worried about her being shot and killed than someone who is trans in the bathroom with her.
People don’t just wake up one day and go “I’m a girl! Hyuk! I’m going to go be a girl just to get in the bathroom! Hyuk!”
People don’t do that, especially trans people. Get your head out of your ass.
Two things to ponder if you dont understand why people might answer “yes.”: Boys pissing in public on trees and in bushes is a normal thing, especially among circles expressing concern about a society that acknowledges trans people exist. Boys using toilets is a plus, at all ages. Second: every Porta potty in existence seems to operate with its gender neutrality without the same kind of panic. If you can square these two notions: Boys using a toilet isn’t odd, strange, or worth a moral panic. You might then see your question isn’t about toilets, and about gendered space and how important it is to have spaces that are exclusive and exclusionary based on something like gender, (or even… other things!)
Of course my point is about having separate spaces that are exclusive to the two sexes. Males commit the overwhelmingly large percentage of sex crimes. Giving males free access to women’s safe spaces is not going to end well.
You’re making the unnecessary leap of toilets>sex. And then further to sex>sex crimes. This is why I mentioned portapotties. These are gender neutral public toilets found all over the nation. Are portapotties offensive? Sexual dens?
Toilets and bathrooms are perfectly functional as gender neutral spaces. The insistence that a transperson using the bathroom that aligns with their gender is somehow an invitation for sex crime just doesn’t have much basis.
Why do questions like this always sound like the person asking is just putting a question mark at the end of something they’ve considered doing?
Ah yes, the people that are against letting men in the women’s spaces are the ones that want to go in women’s spaces. Impeccable logic you have there.
Trans women are women, bigot.
I’d imagine that trans women don’t want to use the men’s room because of people like you who consider restrooms to be peeping opportunities.
I’m talking sex, not gender.
Quit the name calling.
Also again with trying to deflect and call the people that want to stop any potential for “peeping opportunities” the ones that are the “peepers” lol. Make it make sense.
Also again with trying to deflect and call the people that want to stop any potential for “peeping opportunities” the ones that are the “peepers” lol.
I don’t want 11 year old girls being forced to use men’s restrooms. Why do you want that so badly?
11 year old biological boys you mean?
Why do you so desparately want biological males to be allowed in to female-only spaces? You’re trying to make out that the people that don’t want biological males in biological female toilets are the creepy ones here and it’s bizarre lol.
Why do you want 11 year old biological girls in the mens toilets with you? Why do you want that so badly?
Imagine holding in a shit for months as a court determines where you can poop.
gender neutral bathrooms are the answer here.
most public places have them now, don’t get why you can’t have one in a school.
In places with large crowds, gender neutral bathrooms (assuming you also mean single-use) don’t really work. It causes massive lines.
Not to mention, there’s no need. It’s a bathroom. Why does anyone care who they pee or poop next to? It seems so silly and arbitrary to me. Just get in, do your thing, wash your hands, and get out. haha
We can have gender neutral bathrooms where we have a shared hand-washing area, and individual stalls. Heck, you can even have cameras pointed towards the sink area if people are so afraid of getting harassed in the bathroom. Gender should not matter when you have individual stalls.
Right? I’ve been using public restrooms for a long time and I don’t recall ever seeing anyone’s naughty bits.
…and for me the most ridiculous part of this discussion is that bathrooms have never been a secure space. If some creep wanted to go into a bathroom to harass people, there is literally nothing stopping them. It’s not like bathrooms have guarded entrances and now people have a sneaky way to get into a bathroom by pretending to be transgender or something insane like that.
It’s literally a manufactured issue to get the GOP electorate terrified, as everything they do is designed to do.
I’ve been using public restrooms for a long time and I don’t recall ever seeing anyone’s naughty bits.
I see you’ve never had the misfortune of using the circular trough-style urinal where everyone is facing each other and peeing into the middle. Thankfully, they are not very common.
Oh you know what? I think I did have those in elementary school. That was a while ago though.
I was at a concert at Red Rocks Amphitheatre and they had gender neutral single stall bathrooms with a shared sink area. It was great. Sure, there was a line, but there was going to be one anyway. However, it ensured 100% utilization, when potentially one side would have less than 100% usage when the other has a line. It’s ideal for places with large crowds.
(The stalls were also well built basically single rooms, not the shitty American stalls with gaps in them.)
I’ve never understood why I should care where someone else goes to the bathroom anyways.
I wouldn’t want my boy showing genitals to women on a bathroom. Viceversa too
What world do you live in that you see other people’s genitals in the bathroom? I’ve never had this issue, none of my friends have, and I doubt you could provide any significant proof that is an issue. You just hate trans people. Say the quiet part out loud.
I think the quiet part that needs to be a bit more out loud is that while all the fingers are pointed at trans people over creeping in the ladies’ room, the resulting ‘bathroom panic’ gives cis men cover to go into the ladies’ bathroom to police who’s trans or not in there and it’s totally not creeping when they do that, nosirreebob
The bigger issue is that it gives perverted and creepy men an open invitation to go in to womens bathrooms by simply saying they identify as a woman.
No men are going in to womens bathrooms to “police” them.
And trans girls/women aren’t just doing that either.
I have never heard a man say “oh darn! I can’t rape her, she made it to the safe zone of the women’s bathroom!”
Are you daft? You can’t be serious right? Creeps aren’t going to be deterred by a door. Trans people just want to use the bathroom and get out as quickly and quietly as possible.
🤦🏼♀️
I don’t know what bathrooms you’ve been in, but nobody is showing anyone anything in the bathroom. In most cases people who are trans use stalls anyways.
Its not, literally all you have to do is not discriminate.
Good lord they are only 11 years old. Who cares what bathroom they use.
Pretty much only conservatives. They’re actually pretty obsessed with thinking about children being raped in bathrooms.
Make them all unisex. If it’s a large facility with a bunch of stalls or a small facility for only one person, make them all unisex.
Yes. And get rid of that creepy door gap while you’re at it
It’s only America that has pervert friendly toilet gaps.
…so you are going to take away my urinals, my fast turnaround time, and my silence?
They can put urinals in a unisex restroom.
In fact, there are all sorts of things in public restrooms that are unused. For example, the last restroom you visited had a sink where you could have washed your hands.
The obvious solution is to make available an additional bathroom that is universally available to anyone.
Really, at 11?
Yes? 11 is an age where children often are hitting puberty and if someone is trans, that’s when gender dysphoria would become more pronounced.
Well, at what age did you start to believe you were cis?
Bigots are incapable of thinking this way. They only see LGBT+ people as “the other” and themselves as “normal”, so they never realize that they themselves at one point figured out their own identity (including both gender and sexuality). They think it’s only LGBT+ folks having to figure those things out.
It’s bizarre, especially since society does push cisgendered and heterosexual norms at a very early age. Young boys will get asked if they like any girls and they’ll constantly be pushed with gender roles and stereotypes for their birth gender. It’s so normalized that most folks don’t even seem to realize that it happens until confronted with the existence of any alternative (like LGBT+ folks). A reasonable person would examine their biases and realize stuff like “huh, I guess I knew my gender from a young age”, but bigots have this irrational hatred for LGBT+ people so they’re not willing or capable of this kind of insight. Their brain has to twist logic into justifying the bigotry that they’ve already concluded on.
Meanwhile I feel like there’s a much bigger issue going on. 11 years old? Did they even go through puberty yet?
Fair point. In that case, you cannot call anyone a boy or a girl until they hit puberty. You must treat them all as the same gender (or genderless). One bathroom for “children” who haven’t hit puberty and thus clearly don’t have a gender. Then we can have a bathroom each for “boy” and “girl”.
Or… was that not your point? I wonder if I can guess your point?
Why would they need to go through puberty? Did you not know what gender you were before puberty?
Plus, if you figure out you’re trans (or might be trans) that young, you’d usually take puberty blockers explicitly to delay puberty until you’re a bit older and doctors can be more certain, at which point HRT can be started. Puberty blockers are very safe and reversible, unlike puberty (whether natural puberty or HRT puberty).
Puberty blockers are very safe and reversible
This is 100% incorrect btw.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/puberty-blockers-not-so-reversible-after-all/
https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389
https://www.transgendertrend.com/nhs-no-longer-puberty-blockers-reversible/
The FDA doesn’t even approve puberty blockers for “gender affirmation”.
You can’t just “pause” puberty and then go through it years later completely unaffected. That’s not how it works.
We need to have a chat about reputable sources…
Let’s see…
Right-wing rag, right-wing rag that has the phrase “Biblical truth” in its slogan, right-wing rag pushing vaccine conspiracies and transphobia on its front page, aaand… anti-trans hate group.
Your bias is showing.
My “bias” was literally go to google and search, then grab the ones that had studies and scientists/doctors backing them up. The NHS no longer says that puberty blockers are reversible. It doesn’t matter what site reports it, they’re reporting facts.
What I take from this is that you know they’re right, you just want to deflect because you have no actual response.
Nah, you just grabbed whatever shitty articles backed up your existing viewpoint because if you’d bothered to do any actual research you’d have seen that at worst there’s a hell of a lot more nuance than the anti-trans bigotry you spewed all over the thread:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9793415/
https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible
Oh, and please note that my sources are from official government sources and peer-reviewed journals, not transphobic right-wing rags that are pushing agendas.
Why would they need to go through puberty
Because MASSIVE hormonal and neurological changes happen with puberty.
It’s like the most drastic change of your body and mind that most people will ever experience in their lives.
So the idea is to take someone who knows they’re trans and force permanent irreversible changes on them just for the joy of being cruel to children instead of just forestalling puberty with a reversible treatment.
someone who knows
Call me EXTREMELY skeptical that anyone knows fuck about anything before puberty, let alone their lifelong gender, sexuality, or anything else concerning the things that hormones change.
reversible treatment.
This is a total bullshit statement. We don’t know the long-term effects of puberty blocking, for this particular purpose. There’s plenty of studies that show the bone density is fucked up after, if they choose not to fully transition. Plenty of other side effects that may not be reversible, but we don’t know because it hasn’t been studied enough.
So no. I call bullshit on that.
I wish I were on puberty blockers. I’m not trans btw
What happens when she’ll be 42?
She’ll probably be a regular 42 year old woman?
jej
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I find it hard to believe someone can identify as a different gender when they’re 3…
