i’m doing it because I want to make the fediverse more friendly place, in hopes of making it more welcoming for new users, and the nicer place in general. But I wonder how much is just less bots.
deleted by creator
This is one thing I’ve been trying to figure out, I keep hearing this a lot. What exactly is different with the upvotes and downvotes? Do they not bury comments and posts or something? Serious question just trying to be informed
At least in the app I’m using there is no cumulative score for your upvotes/downvotes, so people don’t care about it.
Also comments don’t seem to get hidden due to downvotes thankfully. That was always a stupid system.
Tbh I wish that the comment voting system didn’t exist, or that to downvote you had to write a legit reason why, and everyone could see the votes and reasons. Shit reasons would take away your ability to downvote temporarily, extending further the more you do it. Too many people just use it as a disagree button.
Also comments don’t seem to get hidden due to downvotes thankfully. That was always a stupid system.
i hate this so much about reddit. a lot of users abuse this system so much to hide your comments so nobody sees them anymore… they just vanish because usually users don’t click unhide.
even if you are nice in the comment and are in the right… if someone dislikes your comment they can pull out their twink accounts and downvote it. and if a comment is at around -3 to -4 or similiar, most users just click downvote without actually reading it… because “others have downvoted that comment so it has to be right. downvote click”
its just so toxic on reddit…
Doesn’t even have to be downvoted heavily. If you bash the admins/powermods, your comment gets magically collapsed, even if it’s near the top. I don’t know how that happens.
admins and mods working for reddit (the paid ones) have “tools” to do such things. thats also how /u/spez manipulated user comments who said fuck spez etc. - also how they manipulate /r/place currently. they just paint a huge black square or checkerboard over images they dislike.
Some mods basically thought their job amounted to having a power downvote… they’d banish comments they just didn’t agree with, not abusive, but just something they didn’t like and control the conversation that way. That’s one thing if it’s really their sub, but pretty lame if it’s something like /r/Portland and you’re not allowed to disagree with whatever the mods think on a topic, or even discuss other viewpoints.
Yeh I had this happen to my comment once, but it wasn’t even abusing the mods or anything, it was just not the circle jerk reply the mod wanted. It was one of the most upvoted comments on a post, and all of a sudden it was gone from the top. Lo and behold it was now collapsed down the bottom with a huge positive score. Absolute joke.
Yep, reddit works with upvote and downvote bandwagons. Often (though not always) the first votes on a comment or post determine how the whole thing will go, especially with the self-reinforcing sorting. I noticed what you said about downvotes too, that if someone has an slightly hard to interpret, ambiguous or sarcastic post, once a few people downvoted it, other people will assume it’s a “bad” post and be more likely to down it themselves. Also you can post the same comment on similar threads in the same sub 2 days apart and the results might be wildly different depending on timing, placement, or just who saw it first.
i’m around 12 years on reddit, and votes & how good a post or comments gets welcomed by the communitys on reddit feels kinda random to me.
you can post like you said the same thing at random times, and it will be either welcomed or punished to hell. i had times where i tried to find out if time & timezones have something to do with, but even when trying to post on specific times this didn’t changed much.
after all this years, i decided for myself posting on reddit is like a dice. you roll and either win or fail.
edit: sorry for the horrible english by the way. my motherlanguage isn’t english so i often have still issues with finding the right words for things :/
Ah, very Reddit of you to type a comment eloquently and then apologize for your English!
(I say this in jest! First-language English speakers would use apologies to pad out their fake AITA stories. Also your writing is totally fine!)
See, I don’t see a problem with using it as a disagree button, especially since the count is useless on Lemmy. My client (Jerboa) does give a cumulative score, but again, in the absence of The Algorithm™️ it’s just notational. Sometimes a shit take is just a shit take, and it’s not worth fighting with trolls. Downvote and move on.
I will say I 100% agree that I like that the up/down ratio doesn’t auto-hide a comment. It was too easy to manipulate the system on Reddit, and sometimes a (genuinely) unpopular opinion was insightful.
Though. I really would like to know who that one user is that seems to just downvote everything. I think almost everything I’ve seen lately on Lemmy seems to have exactly one downvote. I like to imagine there’s just one super angry dude like NO on everything.
There was a time when Reddit showed not just the sum of upvotes and downvotes, but the counts of both. The best comments were always the ones with hundreds of both up and down.
Then they hid that, and you needed to use RES to resurrect the downvotes. Then they removed the separate downvote count entirely, replacing it with the controversial tag. Problem is that the flag didn’t differentiate between 5/3 (+2) and 5000/4998 (+2).
That was the end of Reddiquette, and the beginning of Reddit’s decline into mediocrity.
I agree with the dislike button thing. I’m using wefwef so it’s basically an Apollo clone so I can see my cumulative stats so I guess to me they mean something. I guess everywhere has its own system so it’s a side effect of decentralized community.
Edit: removed a word
but… do most people actually care? i stopped caring about my cumulative amount after a specific amount (currently i’m at 319.056 Post-Karma, 91.827 comment karma). its just too much too care anymore for me. if it goes down or up… i don’t really feel it anymore or even care. i think the whole cumulative score of votes isn’t really fullfilling anything purposefull.
how do you feel about such a cumulative score? does it triggers dopamine for you? for me it is “meh”, so i’m interested in how other people experience this.
It’s a tale as old as time:
you do something and number go up? Dopamine
you do something and number go down? nopeamine
if you get too much of something fun, it stops being fun after a while. same as with drugs… after a while, the same dosis isn’t having the same high anymore as the first time.
Very true. Moderation and responsible use with drugs is key.
Number go up will never stop feeling good hahaha
Doesn’t matter much to me as far as high score type fulfillment fluff but as someone who likes stats and something to reference information about where I’m at is interesting at least and appreciated for the sake of being knowing. I always love video games that had a full stat page on the options like gta
The only thing a bunch of karma did was let you join some private subs but they weren’t really all that great usually
Comments weren’t originally hidden due to downvotes on Reddit either… That’s a relatively recent change and it sucks.
I don’t really take issue with downvotes being used as a disagree button as a general rule but I can also see room to improve the system someho, too.
As long as they never add any “punishment” for being downvotes then I guess it doesn’t matter. On Reddit downvotes we’re used to reinforce the echo chamber and to essentially silence differing opinions.
Wait, posts showed both upvote and downvote rates at one point and they didn’t collapse by default if they got too many downvotes until recently?
They never showed both total up and downvotes individually like some Lemmy clients do… Only the sum of the two.
But, they didn’t used to collapse regardless of the sum going negative.
I wish the system existed as is but was 100% hidden except for the OP.
It’s cool to know that a topic got a hundred thousand upvotes and was the highlight of the day.
But there’s literally no reason to know if someone is currently being brigaded or boosted, it just preempts and primes what judgement they receive. Remove that, and ragedownvotes are gone as people who do it will exercise no power and no influence.
Lemmy already has another improvement: We can see who’s downvoting you. Every downvote is public and comes with names. So if you personally brigaded, you can go to the admin with evidence and those people will get their vote rights removed, or will get outright banned. But I still think that’s not enough. The “this person has a bad score, I’ll downvote then” is bad and should really not be a thing, I wish we just removed it.
deleted by creator
It would be nice to not have drive by downvotes, though I don’t always have the energy to explain or reply to someone. About the shit reasons though… how is that determined? Do we have to uh, vote on the reasons too?
Ooh ooh I like that a lot to downvote you must reply.
I think it would almost instantly solve a lot of the issue with the system tbh. Making people not only have to justify their downvotes, but have those justifications be visible means that their bullshit and brigading would be seen and called out/dealt with.
That’s actually another thing I’ve seen here, if you do get brigated there’s a pretty good chance people will come by and balance you back out . And read it once you had a couple people shove you on a box nobody ever saw you to come take you back out.
I like up vote only.
Well, I downvoted you because I disagree. Who’s on the committee to decide if this is a shit reason? Also, which committee decided that downvotes are not for disagreement?
Well the rules on Reddit specifically say that the downvote button isn’t a disagree button. Haven’t even looked at the rules on them here tbh, I assume it’s different per instance.
Mods could decide which were shit, but the good thing would be that even if the mods were shit at least everyone could see who was downvoting in bad faith. It would also showcase shitty mods.
While third party apps do track total up votes there is no “karma”. So unlike Reddit having 60bajilliondie points means nothing to anyone but you. Don’t even think I can see someone else’s points.
Sorta yeah. Comments seem to mostly be sorted by new to old. Upvotes do matter… But not as much as ‘Boosting’ does to push content to your frontpage.
Why everyone just doesn’t hit boost is beyond me but eh. It feels like boost is meant for those especially relevant and nice posts you definitely want others to see vs casually clicking.
From my new user experience it seems like active comments get placed higher regardless of upvoted. i.e. comments that are still being commented on or new ones.
What if I told you they didn’t mean shit over there either?
I get what you’re saying - that we don’t have a “karma” score associated with our username - but the votes do drive what people see first when they view a particular community or the “front page” so they do matter.
They didn’t really mean shit on Reddit either except to the high score obsessed and people who intended to sell their account to be used by bots and scammers.
And downvotes especially don’t mean anything since they aren’t even enabled on blahaj.zone :)
I don’t really feel like they meant shit on reddit either. As far as I know high karma doesn’t give you any additional benefits but perhaps bragging rights if it’s something one is proud of.
They never did, but here there no persistent score gamifying it.
Come on, they didn’t mean shit over at The Bad Place either… Sure, there’s extreme examples of accounts racking up crazy amounts of karma, and being able to sell them, but… If you’re not using bots, that still means 99.9% of people didn’t profit in any way from upvotes…
I’ve seen more instances of “you’re right, I’m being a dumbass” than I was prepared to.
The Old Place put a patina of grime on my soul. People are alright here.
You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As they say in Texas. I’ll bet you couldn’t pour !@#$ out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won’t go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You’re a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done. I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformation. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You’re a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won’t have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. And what meaning do you expect your delusional self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral[size] equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meat slapper. On a good day you’re a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go. You smarmy lager lout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oink artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I’m sorry. I can’t go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don’t have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh. The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of what you wrote, because, well… it didn’t really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective… Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us ”normal” people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are ”challenged” persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn’t have been ”right”. Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you. P.S.: You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly, deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent, opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted, racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial, satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious, splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless, illegitimate, harmful, destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist, narrow, manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting, censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous, flagrant, self-destructive, abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, clueless, and generally NOT GOOD.
I agree for the most part. However, in my effort to post content, I’ve gotten more than a few snarky or mean comments about the quality of the content. I get it if it’s not for you but just down vote. You don’t need to make the person feel bad for trying to help Lemmy grow.
I stopped using upvotes/downvotes at all on Reddit. Unless you were on New, exclusively, it didn’t matter how often you got on Reddit, anything you were seeing was at least fifteen hours old. Any conversation was already done. Any up/downvotes you put in wouldn’t matter at all and probably just got ignored by the system. Anything you had to say would only appear to you, in reality it just dropped to the bottom of the sea, never again to be seen. Thousands had already spoken, somehow, and you were just walking through a snapshot of the past, already said and done.
For now, it’s much smaller here. Sometimes I find myself upvoting a post just to let the person know that somebody actually came in here and gave a fuck about what they had to say, that they aren’t talking to themselves in an empty room.
It makes sense to care a bit more, for a lot of reasons. We’ll see how long that vibe can sustain itself.
My feeling exactly. Smaller communities nurture much more healthier engagement than bigger ones
Sure, for the main subs. But the smaller subs for hobbies (for example) didn’t have this issue.
I didn’t vote much either, though. So many posts were karma farmers reposting old material.
It’s arguably so easy to “farm karma” that I accidentally did it for a while. Just kept posting silly puns to reply to stuff people post on the Florida Man subreddit.
Reddit karma ain’t worth much at all.
Don’t forget mods hiding your posts without a trace! There is no way from the reddit interface to tell.
Lost the link, but there’s a site that shows all the posts you made that were hidden from the rest of the sub. LOL, they even let the guy do an AMA!
I was more than a little stunned. Dozens of posts, just gone, very recently, and I had no idea. Nothing controversial, nothing crazy, and for sure nothing right-wing that might have triggered any liberal mods. I’m certain someone was following me around, reporting everything they might get traction on, hiding my posts. All very disconcerting.
Just posted about being banned for “inciting violence” for the 3rd time in 2-months. And I’m now a lunatic after 11-years without issue? Not like I can see what I was banned for, or even appeal.
I’m out. How are you folks?
Friend, yesssssss!
Here it feels like interacting with the community matters. A comment will be one of ten or a hundred, not ten thousand or hundred thousand. Comment chains between two people with different views can be discussions, instead of flamewars where one person is dogpiled for disagreeing with the thread.
Let’s all enjoy what we have here before it gets overtaken by chuds and/or AI :)
It’s the same crowd and over time they will be identical. The power of moderation is the only thing that keeps nastiness in check.
Well at least we have the circlejerk going for us
I upvote for general encouragement. But I upvoted this especially to be nice to you, OP. I also gave you a lil boost.
Every platform is nice at the start, for mainly the reason you say: people who join early have an interest in the platform, so we actually try to keep it nice.
Then every successful new platform gets its own eternal september. A large influx of people who don’t care about the platform at all, they just want to use it to talk to people. And of these, yes many are still nice people, but also many aren’t.
You see this in all kinds of communities, not just online. If you’re in a new or niche hobby, everybody there will have an interest in improving the hobby and the small community, so it will probably be very nice. When it gets mainstream (I’m looking at MTG here, but other people probably know other examples) then it starts to attract people who do nothing but complain.
Fuck you. I hate you all.
Just kidding. I like it here. Sometimes a little boring but maybe that is a good thing. I have plenty of things to do. This is a nice break and not stressful like some other sites.
As long as we keep posting content and the users continue to slowly grow there is hope.
We have the higher ground
Because it’s easier to moderate smaller communities and the average idiot hasn’t discovered these types of communities. Reddit on the other hand has reached mainstream status, so the average idiot is going to sign up there and say stupid stuff or be idiotic. Every platform goes through this.
Even when I argue here, it’s very civil.
I think part of it is that it seems like Lemmy has older users on average than Reddit. For teenagers and young twenty years olds raised on the internet, they seem to not really know how to talk to people in a productive way, so it’s often just toxic, nasty or empty. Obviously this isn’t all people, but internet culture kids tend to all sound and act the same.
As someone younger, I completely agree with you.
Yeah some of the Reddit comment sections I’ve seen over the years have been full of people trying to instigate something.
deleted by creator
There’s significant overlap there.
deleted by creator
Could be. I don’t really know for sure. Just speculating.
Its sad to see what the shape of the room can do to ones psyche, really the AI has taken over because it was handed what the walls look like on a silver platter and told to get to work.
I had sexual relations with your mother.
deleted by creator
Perhaps for lemmy, the Orca Toasts at Noon.
But yeah, lemmy actually feels like a community. I haven’t seen too much of a “thread consensus” effect, where any differing views get buried with downvotes for not agreeing. The only mass downvoted comments I’ve seen so far were blatant racism/sexism/homophobia/other noncivil comments, and LITERAL shitposts.
TLDR: Lemmy circlejerks way less, but allows uncensored gifs of people pooping in comments
What time does the narwhal bacon tho?
So what I’m hearing is that we need some kind of “code phrase” to identify ourselves as fediverse users in the real word.
How about “The (noun)_ beans at (time)_” as a starting point?
I would not overly praise old reddit like this. I agree that people were more open minded and willing to engage in substantive discussions, but old reddit was also hosting the likes of /r/jailbait, /r/coontown, /r/n*ggers. There’s good and bad aspects.
