You should see the Gab echo chamber, it’s absolutely horrifying.
I think having a marketplace full of alternatives helps prevent that kind of entrenchment somewhat. Here is my problem though, who decides what an echo chamber is? I like a good back and forth conversation, but hate bad faith arguments. If people talk stupid shit, how much tolerance should one reasonably expect?
The problem isn’t different opinions, or even radical ones, it’s these opinions garnering more clicks and views, incentivizing them as a result.
The reddit model works well for discussions but the mod fiasco ruins everything.
Far right radicalization will get worse if progressives leave X. Conservatives will stick around simply because they aren’t banned and then the white supremacists will be free to start pulling them without push back.
Nearly all social media is full of
ecoecho chambers… I still post and follow stuff on several of the platforms. There is very little nuanced conversation… Seems like it is more and more just an up vote or downvote storm, or people claiming one thing or another without any supporting evidence.Happy to see the word “nuance” being used… wish there was more of that too. This whole binary with-me / against-me mentality will bring us all crashing down.
And that makes me genuinely sad. When I joined Lemmy, I was a little put off by the leftist bent here, but then I realized that I appreciated being challenged on my views, especially since people here are generally nice about it.
I wish I could find something like that for conservatives as well. Better yet, I wish there was a place like Reddit or Lemmy where all views were respected, provided claims are supported with evidence. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be compatible with the world we live in, and that makes me sad.
Seems like there aren’t many centrist communities where you can have nuanced discussions.
I honestly don’t care about centrism, I care about diversity of ideas with citations for claims. If a left wing or right wing policy is the best for a given situation, I’d love to discuss it.
But failing that, I’ll take centrist over either political extreme any day of the week.
You can probably post on 7.62x54r.ru. Reddit had a decent number of anti-establishment leftists who would join up with conservatives on shared issues. I haven’t seen any spaces like that on Lemmy.
Yeah, and that’s something I missed about Reddit. I found a few good communities of centrists, open minded leftists, and open minded conservatives, so I could generally join a pretty good discussion. I still needed to watch what I said, because there were some things even open minded people wouldn’t consider given their political bias, but a lot of things were fair game.
For example, I could bring up Right to Repair to both groups, and I’d get different reasons for and against it from each group.
Here on Lemmy, I don’t get that diversity, either something is compatible with the group’s general leftist persuasion, or I get downvoted into oblivion. And that sucks, because I put in a lot of effort to be constructive and challenge the status quo. Fortunately, I usually know before making a statement which way it’ll go, and there are no downsides (aside from worse engagement) to getting down votes, so I know what to expect. It does make me sad though.
I’ll check out that community though. Not sure what to expect from a .ru domain though as an American…
Eco chambers sound like a good thing.
Absolutely not. If for no other reason then you lose the ability to actually argue for your ideas if you’re in an echo chamber.
Unpopular opinion: It’s time to bring back church.
No algorithms controlling you; locally based and strengthens community; a broad spectrum of rich and poor meeting and being seen; opportunities to care and be cared about on a weekly basis; opportunities to develop social skills and to really make an impact in your community based on social missions like food banks and myriad activities. Plus, you meet people not because you want to change their minds, but because they’re just there, trying to be better people. And then once in a while, good conversations turn into minds changed.
Context: I used to be Mormon and left because I no longer believed, but I now see a hell of a lot of good in church, as long as it isn’t a control freak over your life and sense of self.
It works because you’ve got people who share a potent, vast common ground — being Christians.
Many churches have a bible that the church want’s you to believe without question. Which is known as faith. It is better to question everything.
Unpopular opinion Well you got that part right.
I don’t know how it could get any worse than now. Basically we’re all in echo chambers whichever platform you use. Including Lemmy.
Agreement with “consensus” of whatever bucket you’re placed into is rewarded, and disagreement is punished. Even if only by upvote/downvote. Switching platforms won’t change much.
If you stray from world, things are a bit better. World, however, hasn’t seen a ban or anti-free speech action they didn’t embrace fully. World is a cesspool of smug libs that refuse to engage with anyone they perceive to be on their left or right.
I think you’ve been in an echo chamber for too long.
yup. Lemmy.world!
I haven’t had any issues with .world. Ive had more issues with smaller instances banning people/topics. World seems like the most
blandor popular of the lemmy instances.Most of the issues I have with world are invisible because the comments are removed and the users are banned. As long as you stick with their narrative (that Trump bad and Biden/Kamala good) you won’t run afowl of them.
Cant you see everything via the modlist + API? I thought that was one of the benefits of Lemmy is that the modlist is open. I have seen people down-voted for specific comments but not banned.
Many have been banned. A leftist named linkerbaan (or to like that) was one for sure.
No social media site controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg is going to be a healthy experience. You will have much more varied content anywhere else.
I look at it this way: I don’t let in the crazy person on the street screaming racist garbage into my house, so I also don’t have to listen to or engage with that person on the internet, either. That doesn’t make my house an “echo chamber.”
For a long time I tried to treat “internet people” with some level of “respect” so to say. That is, I didn’t spend time blocking people and whatnot. But now? Screw em. I don’t have time to listen to nonsense, so if someone tries to come in to a conversation in bad faith, it’s very easy to block and move on.
Or on short-form social media like Bsky or Masto or whatever if someone posts a racist thing. Or a bigoted thing. Block and move on.
Those trolls live off of engagement so just don’t give it to them. And those same trolls are the ones complaining about “echo chambers.” “Waaa, no one wants to listen to my racist nonsense. It’s an echo chamber!” No, you are just a trash human, and no one is obligated to listen to you.
Those trolls live off of engagement
Not anymore. Back in the day trolling was a recreational activity done for fun. Deny the fun, cut off the troll’s food. Now it’s being done for political purposes, so cutting off the fun no longer functions since it no longer strikes at the primary motivation.
The result for the people who block them is still the same, though: they no longer see the troll garbage.
It decreases the spread. Cutting form the engagement means free people who aren’t already subscribed to that content will see it, since there’s fewer people arguing with it. Which means those who are susceptible to falling for it have less chance to even encounter it, meaning fewer fall into it.
Even if the incentive to create the trolls has changed, the counter to letting it spread hasn’t.
Groups of any kind are echo chambers. That’s why they exist.
I doubt that it can be any worse than tech companies with financial incentives doing it. Surrounding yourself with like minded people will surely cause some bubbles like that but since when is letting a targeted algorithm funneling us for ad revenue a better option? I don’t personally think it’s a big deal and guessing that people are just upset that their obsession with mass engagement is getting shook.
For all the great enforcement problems KOSPA has, at least it incorporated Filter Bubble Transparency…
It’s a valid claim, IMO. The libs leaving Twitter all seem to be VERY into Orwellian practices like “official block lists” and other absurd self-owns.
I assure you that official blocklists are a very fringe viewpoint.
So fringe that BlueSky officially lists the most blocked accounts on BLueSky IN THEIR API: https://vqv.app/
So fringe that millions of people subscribe to them.
So fringe that over 1700 people upvoted this list on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueskySocial/comments/1gtqtd3/and_remember_you_can_block_all_magarelated/
Talk about blaming the victim. I’d challenge you to create an account and put that you’re trans in the profile. See how long it takes to get death threats. There is a reason for these block lists. Maybe people don’t want to get harassed every time they post something.
Also, where is the “most blocked accounts” list in that link?
That’s a great point that I honestly hadn’t considered.
That people create blocklists that become popular absolutely does not prove endorsement of a potential official blocklist. While an official, default blocklist may be Orwellian, unofficial opt-in blocklists that require searching for are not Orwellian at all. One knows they’re there, one chooses to block them. Your line of reasoning leads to arguing against the block feature entirely. And what’s wrong with providing transparent statistics?
All totally valid points. I just so happen to disagree with API official ban lists.
I don’t know that it’ll affect the echo chamber effect; you create that through your subscriptions, and avoid it by browsing “all.” What will be impacted is the amount of simply shit content, both from idiots and from bots. Moderators’ jobs will get harder: the bots follow the people.
even if it doesn’t isn’t having more twitters bad? because it causes more places of toxicity to exist
People need to be civil. On every platform they have shown that they can’t be (or have no good reason to choose to be).
Moderation is the key, but moderation is challenging. That’s why self moderation (keeping yourself civil) is very important. Which loops us back to the beginning.
I’ve been on Bluesky very early on, and with the mass exodus of liberals from twitter, they are recreating their own toxic echo chambers on Bluesky now and it’s bleeding through into every post they disagree with.
Well that’s kind of baked-in to social media. If you’d otherwise talk to lots of different people in person, read much etc and now come to the internet and choose any of the mentioned platforms… That’d be bad. You’re now in a smaller filter bubble. If you’re already in some echo chamber and for example switch from mastodon to bluesky… that’s a minor change. The situation is a bit different if you change from a nazi platform to a regular one. It’s still not good. But better.
One thing to bear in mind is that, whenever someone accustomed to one platform explores another, they’ll tend to ascribe any differences between the communities to the other platform being an echo chamber of some kind.
