One looks like gambling but is actually a fun roguelite card game, the other one looks like fun but is actually a gambling game. Guess which one is rated 18+?
spoiler
Okay I lied, FC24 doesn’t even look like fun, but that’s my personal opinion.
It’s entirely his fault for not being a multi-billion dollar company which actively invests in better ratings. In capitalism, there is no fairness - there is only money.
This reminds me of the documentary “This film is not yet rated”. The point was that the MPAA gives way more leniency to big budget studios when giving ratings. The net effect of this is it kills the low budget films before they can be released.
Yeah came here to echo the same sentiments. He isn’t establishment. Aka he has no voice. As money is speech in America.
PEGI is European; the ESRB gave Balatro a E10+ for “gambling themes”
And that’s honestly exactly what I would expect. It’s not suitable for a 4yo, but there’s nothing in it to warrant a teen rating either. So yeah, E with a note sounds exactly right.
Sure if we were talking about a reasonable, independent ratings agency with the public good as its primary guiding factor. But both the ESRB and PEGI are private, industry run and funded ‘self-regulatory’ agencies that operate with the industries own self interests as its primary guiding factor.
While you’re not wrong, I doubt the Pan European Game Information ratings board cares that much about speech in America.
Right but America bad please clap
If you search for “poker” on PEGI’s site, it seems that many games which are actually about simulated gambling are rated 12 or 16. They seem to think Balatro is more likely to expose children to realistic gambling than, say, Prominence Poker or Pure Hold’em World Poker Championship, which seems completely bizarre, given that those games are about playing poker and Balatro is a fancy kind of solitaire with no betting.
The reasoning in question:
This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker. During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker
So, this game teaches skills and knowledge that are used in poker. The skills in knowledge are limited to… playing and making poker hands. That’s it. Also, “as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points” – is hilariously funny. The idea that knowledge of what a poker hand is is anything related to the dangers of gambling is ridiculous.
As the game goes on, the poker hands also get increasingly unrealistic and different from real poker including things like five of a kind, and a pair being worth more than a royal flush.
If you tried to take the skills you learn from balatro to a poker table you would get kicked out basically immediately.
I place a torn up joker on the table, a tarot card, a llanowar elf card, and a pair of threes
“So with my score multiplier basically I own the casino.”
The dealer frantically calls security
I know this is anecdotal but I’m now living in a ditch because of Balatro. I never gambled before in my life and all the poker knowledge Balatro me taught caused me to start extreme gambling and now I’m dead in a ditch.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Can’t. I’m a little too dead for pics
Sounds like grounds for a defamation suit to me considering his stated opinions on gambling.
In the meantime we can start guessing which side has more money to hire lawyers
Is the rating purely because it uses playing cards? Poker hands?
Yahtzee and literal poker with betting are included in Nintendo clubhouse/worldwide 51 and it’s rated Pegi-12.
Would balatro get a pass if it used cards numbered 1-13 instead of traditional cards?
This whole thing is bonkers.
Anyone can walk into a store and buy a deck of cards.
I bet the gift shop of any casino in Las Vegas would sell a souvenir deck of cards to a kid without a second thought.
Kmart and target both sell literal “poker kits” with decks of cards and chips with no restriction on who can buy it. In the toy section with the other board games no less.
Where the fuck are you going to Kmart?
This post is clearly full of people WHO CLEARLY HAVE NO GAMBLING PROBLEM.
The arguments are even more ridiculous if you substitute an addictive drug for gambling.
“But vicodin and oxy are legal, how’s that fair!” “Plenty of kids are prescribed painkillers in other countries and they are fine!” “The regulatory agency is just trying to punish heroin for being way better than the rest!” “I think all drugs should be legal, anyone should be allowed to make whatever mistakes they want with no oversight!”
We can all imagine the imagery of balatro being somewhat a problem.
But less of a problem compared to games with actual gambling for actual money in the form of lootboxes or gacha mechanisms?
If you can get that to make sense, i’d love to hear it. Can there be a serious warning regarding gambling on balatro? for sure. But how is gambling imagery 18+, and actual gambling with actual money 3+? That’s just insane.
What is most likely to get kids to become gambling addicts? Them learning pokerhands via balatro, or them gambling real money on lootboxes & gacha games and getting addicted to the thrill of winning after gamblling money?
I have seen people burn money in games just as much as some who has gambling problems. Just one has the person expectations being hoping if earning more to continue to gamble with, while gamers who spend cash are looking for more extrinsic values that are still just as useless or not worth it. I do say these game devs are more deserving of the cash but loot boxes exist and others forms of gambling that gets a blind eye. Balatro isn’t even real cash. It’s not the same.
I simply wouldnt give one game a pass to avoid hypocrisy. The loot box games should be marked for adults or changed.
I think there are dynamics at play her but to keep it short. I admire your steadfast disappointment towards gambling or playing with odds. However, for a game like balatro being completely free to continue playing after the initial purchase. As far as I can tell, there are no micro transactions or push for players to sink their wallets into the game. The entire game is basically a simulation. All randomizations are predetermined based on a seed. You can set it or you can figure it out if you are smart enough in math and cryptography. However, ratings are more annoyance than being a real guard against the real problems happening right now.
There are many more dissatisfying things. I doubt we should fight over the rating. Instead we should be in agreement that gambling and other pay to play odds like loot boxes is bad and stricter regulations.
Its not about real money spending. Loot boxes would be problematic without spending real money in my opinion. Thats why I think poker games that dont use any real money should also be marked for adults.
Unfortunately balatro uses poker as a base, and I dont think its changed it enough that it still doesnt resemble poker.
Im surprised the loot boxes in ea games are still around, did the rating organization comment on that at all?
at the end of the day, problems are at different views here. I find games are very similar in many aspects, such as relying heavily on RNG to make outcomes varied. If normal no cash poker is adult, then games like uno and other forms of RNG based games like rolling dice can just as much be adult from your reasoning. I am not particular to labeling games in this way.
there are many more nuances to labeling as adult oriented, such as ability to cause oneself to be worse off in life to the point that it is harmful (like losing your life savings or going into debt) or the content is sexual. that is what I would consider requirement for labeling as adult. I personally think anything that is tied with cash should be labeled as adult. yet, right now, this line is heavily blurred by microtransactions, lootboxes, cosmetics, in game currency and other ways to play with cash.
Playing with cash should be adult, but in game cash you cannot sell or buy is not something I think I can equate here because I see it as another incremental simulator kind of game, like many idle games are like now a days.
Rolling dice and uno have different goals, mainly they are competitive. Balatro and poker is a game where you chase ever higher something whether its points or money.
I agree anything cash should be adult since children dont work and have their own money to begin with. If they want to make a kids version then price in the IAPs and sell it as a whole package like we used to get as kids.
Its sort of funny, we are basically having the gateway drug argument here with games. Balatro could be a small step to other seriously predatory games. I can see how thats on the more strict side of the spectrum though, but I’m more pro regulation than anti.
I deleted my other comment because dogs jumped on me and somehow in the mix up, I pressed the post button, so I removed the partially malformed comment.
On the first topic, your reasoning to differentiate what the goals of competitive games and “chasing higher something” is just not well put into words here. From what I am reading, you tried to make them look different on the higher level view but failed to showcase that, which for both sides you claim one is competitive and the other side is not competitive. However, most definitions for being competitive is to chase ever higher “somethings” for which is mostly points but in other aspects can be money. Hence your reasoning has basically equated them even more deeply. So your point to make them different needs to be redone with that can make your point more clear and is reasonably opposites.
Moving on, I didn’t agree completely that playing with cash is strictly adult. More or less, anything that requires express consent, such as decisions that involve risk of self hurting activities (playing with cash is one of these activities because of our dependency on money), and other adult topics that are not relevant here. There are things that kids can buy to play games for or gain cosmetics for RP or whatever, however I understand the problem will be account selling shenanigans, but that at least raises the bar on barrier of entry too, and most not doing it. Kids need to learn to be less impulsive and I think that is more of what is the root of the problem in this case. We need regulations that would punish companies that try to exploit this.
Yeah, gateway drugs… Look, I know that actual hard to quit drugs are not close to the same as these psychological only addictive activities. Physical withdrawal from those drugs are miles more deadly and impactful on someone’s body and brain. I do think people can take some addictions too far but those cases are more likely to be popular in the news than the more tame stories that highlight what the majority will experience. I am still adamant that balatro is no where close to this topic. It is not able to transition you to something else and this is more on an individual basis and not really generalizable. If someone is being socially pressured by friends or others to do it then balatro will better prepare someone to not make bigger mistakes, so in reality it has a positive than a negative.
This is why I have a hard time reasoning with you on this. I will like to move on, so I will end it here. I feel like we have made our points and we will decide for our own. When it comes down to it, I will more than likely vote for any regulation to pass on restricting gambling and other forms of negative addictions, while weighing in any freedoms that may be reduced or affected. We will see, happy holidays.
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Listen. If there’s a white man in charge and aren’t yourself a wealthy white man, you’re in for a bad time.
