Not gonna lie, the performatively anti-vegan rhetoric is cringe af.
Not sure why it’s so popular on lemmy of all places, but there’s been some really terrible behaviour towards vegans whenever I’ve seen the topic pop up. Just flooding the platform with hate particles for absolutely no reason.
Most vegans/vegetarians I know IRL are chill af. Online veganism is sometimes a whole different thing. Plenty of vegans saying if you’re not vegan you’re not a leftist, or if you’re not vegan why are you even commenting about Palestine because clearly you don’t care about genocide. I’ve only seen 2 posts like that on my year+ on lemmy, but I just ignore them. I’m sure some leftist looking for leftist infighting saw that and was like, vegans are the new MLs/stalinists/anarchists/proto-anti-natural-primitivist or whatever.
I agree, the lemmy.world admins caused bad blood and handled it poorly when proven wrong. I still run into people parroting the admin’s side of vegan cat drama … even when it was proven wrong. I just can’t anymore lmao.
Because there is a subset of vegans who are vocal about their perceived moral superiority due to their diet. Sadly these are the loudest voices many people hear and they frequently aren’t nice people.
Most vegans aren’t attacking people over their dietary choices so non-vegans only tend to see the aggressive folks.
You really, really need to go out your way to find those loud moral superior vegans. Like, look for them, search their communities specifically.
However, there is no shortage of comment from people who apparently just can’t stop seeing angry vegans everywhere and that’s why, those commenters conclude, it’s normal and good to continue with constant anti-veran rhetoric. Because those vegans, you see, are everywhere.
I usually use the “all” feed of Lemmy and have blocked a few of the vegan communities just because of how toxic many of the posts were. This is all from stumbling across them and never seeking them out. It’s really sad because seeing things like vegan recipes and food substitute ideas is something I’d love in my feed.
It was A LOT more common when I was in high school in the 1990s. I have only ever seen it online or in vegan punk circles (many of whom have other issues)
If you have problem with this kind of response to an explicitly vegan bashing post, then you just have a problem with vegans, and not an aversion of their percieved vocal superiority.
And that’s a you problem.
If you classify the mild response to a veganbashing comment as a preachy moral superiority one, your problem is actually with them existing, and you just trying to normalwash your problem
Nah, they used to be more common a while back. I think the community chilled out a bit as too many saw that militant vegan and wanted to not be that vegan
This is one of the biggest problems with literally everything. People see the loud assholes and assume everyone is like that.
So many people think that there are folks out there abusing the pittance they get from welfare because they saw a few people wasting their food stamps. When in reality most people on welfare aren’t out and about to be seen, they’re at home (if they have a home) trying to stretch their dollars.
Anti-welfare rhetoric was a deliberate propaganda campaign. That’s extensively documented, all of that was the result of Reagans deliberate actions.
In this, I assume, it is also very similar to a perpetual vegan bashings.
No, it was a thing that a bunch if people experienced IRL. In my case it was decades ago in high school or in vegan punk circles (many of those have significant problens with theor sense of superiority to begin with).
Very true, but it also doesn’t help ridiculing and banning people from vegan communities who want to go more vegan, but aren’t there yet. There’s some serious gatekeeping going on and it unfortunately makes people give up becoming vegan in defiance.
Lemmy is pretty anti-vegan (and the world is as well), hence this meme being highly upvoted. That causes vegan communities to only want vegans in their spaces so they don’t have to deal with trolls. I know I’ve run into people multiple times who just want to ask questions in these spaces but then it just turns into a troll. I remember someone opening a space meant for vegans who aren’t assholes supposedly, and when I looked in it, it had people describing hunting in gory detail and how important hunting is to them and how they will not ever give up hunting. How is that supposed to be welcoming to vegans? It’s not, it’s just another space for carnism.
If you want to go vegan, online strangers will not stop you no matter how shitty you think they are being to you. You really going to kill animals because someone was mean to you after you already decided it was wrong to do so? It doesn’t matter how you approach the subject, people just don’t give a shit. Most people are lost causes, they will blame anything for why they won’t make the change. I’ve been nice and get told BS anyway. It’s not the way vegans communicate, but it is a convenient excuse for carnists to continue consuming animal products.
Edit: Actually, I’ll elaborate on my thoughts since I made it. I completely agree that vegan/vegetarian is the morally superior position. Even though we evolved to eat meat we can and should choose to live in a way that causes as little harm to nature as possible. That being said I do eat meat. There are a lot of things I would like to improve about myself and that’s just not one I am currently prioritizing.
The point of this meme is that instead of fighting our society would be much better if we worked together on common goals. There are degrees of harm and factory farming is SO much worse for animals than traditional farming. If we all worked together we could build a society with less meat consumption overall and where farm animals are treated better. And everyone would be happier for it.
It reads as anti-vegan to me because it’s another variation of “if vegans were nicer, everyone would eat less meat and become vegan.” People know about factory farming but do not care, some leftists will even defend it while claiming to be “neutral” on the subject. Vegans are nice in general, that’s not why they are hated. They are hated because they expose a truth about society and people do not like what that truth says about themselves.
Also lower row vegan is a dumb caricature. Veganism is about reducing harm, a vegan would not want a person to starve to death. Which families are starving to death because of eggs? It just reads like someone who is anti-vegan made this. Exasperated vegans don’t understand how to convince your average meat-eater that animal lives have value the way a human life has value, that factory farming contributes to destroying the environment, and that eating a plant based diet can be healthy. Because the reaction they usually get is some variation of lower row meat-eater, no matter how nice they are about, or what facts they use, or any emotions they try to appeal to. You cannot work together when meat-eaters will fight tooth and nail so they do not have to give up their meat.
Search lemmy for “vegan reducing harm.” Then search the broad internet for the same thing. You’ll find that this is a common ethos in veganism. I suggest going to the vegan communities (keep in mind you are not welcome in some due to you being a carnist, read the sidebar) and talk to the vegans there. Ask them about harm reduction. You might want to do the debatebro thing, but you might learn more just listening.
I recognized the point OP was going for, but by singling out veganism (and with such a tired stereotype), the tone changes.
I wonder if adding another two examples (because rule of 3), along with the vegan/meat-eater scenario (or replacing it), might help convey the intent more clearly. It would remove the spotlight from one particular group (which, as we all know, is already heavily targeted with undue hate), and would make it more obvious that the message is “we’re all in this together.”
It would take restructuring the whole comic, unfortunately, but it could work.
The reasonable folks among us are turned off by all of yall (the loud and angry folks, and those coming out of the woodwork to argue with vegan people), but it’s hard to be swayed to veganism when that’s the miasma.
Nearly every online platform is like this, about almost every subject. Like I said, some people arguing with trolls online should not affect you becoming vegan. You might think the community has poor moderation and not want to join it, but why would it affect whether you contribute to farm animals dying or not? That’s why I think it is just a convenient excuse to deflect.
Those trolls are just stupid tbh. They probably expect vegans to react shocked or something. It’s definitely okay to ban those.
I think that even though some people find excuses to not become vegan, it shows they know it is the right thing to do and I think it’s possible to give them easy vegan recipes and tips to get them as close to veganism as possible and that would still be an improvement and a win for vegans.
I agree but someone has to come to a vegan for the recipes. You cannot force someone to change. I can give someone a recipe but unless they asked for it, it is ignored in my experience. You can bring vegan food to a gathering and you might get some acknowledgment that it tastes good, but it does not cause anyone to reconsider their viewpoints. You assume people are more open-minded and will actually care, I am saying those people do exist but are not the norm.
Yeah I was in a vegan community cheering people on for being stronger than me. Mentioned that I like meat a lot but I’m trying to cut back. Comment deleted.
Organ meats can be fantastic and plenty of cultures eat them. Beef kidney is especially good on it’s own, but other organs add a lot of flavor. When we make thanksgiving stuffing we chop up all the turkey organs fine and fry them, then mix them in the stuffing. We don’t tell anyone in the family (don’t worry none are vegetarian or vegan) and they love it. If you eat meat you might be pleasantly surprised by organs. And uhh… sorry for posting this on vegan group. For what it’s worth I think you guys are great and morally correct.
This was removed for:
No omni/carnist apologists. This is not a place where to ask to be hand-holded into veganims. Omnis coddling/backpatting is not tolerated, nor are /r/DebateAVegan-like threads
So I’ll tell you my thoughts. You posted gore in detail, for this I would report your comment and want it removed. I don’t want to hear about animal organs and how tasty you think they are in a vegan community. You said said organs would pleasantly surprise people (vegans). I mean what did you expect? This particular community doesn’t do the whole back patting because you are cutting down (which you did not mention), other communities would ban you because you weren’t vegan, so you should always read the sidebar.
There were meat-eaters who posted in a better way:
As someone who generally tries to eat less meat, but isn’t yet vegan, what are some of your staple foods you eat on a weekly or daily basis? This isn’t about nutrition, I just want more meals to add to my rotation that don’t have animal products in them.
See there’s literally nothing you’re doing here except talking shit. Say I was a more weak minded person, your comment might make me think vegans are all assholes.
Not gonna lie, the performatively anti-vegan rhetoric is cringe af.
Not sure why it’s so popular on lemmy of all places, but there’s been some really terrible behaviour towards vegans whenever I’ve seen the topic pop up. Just flooding the platform with hate particles for absolutely no reason.
A lot of it is just trolls and bots sowing discord and sabotaging any debate.
That and the rampant anti-feminism the moment anything slightly pro feminist reaches all makes me question this place quite a bit sometimes.
Most vegans/vegetarians I know IRL are chill af. Online veganism is sometimes a whole different thing. Plenty of vegans saying if you’re not vegan you’re not a leftist, or if you’re not vegan why are you even commenting about Palestine because clearly you don’t care about genocide. I’ve only seen 2 posts like that on my year+ on lemmy, but I just ignore them. I’m sure some leftist looking for leftist infighting saw that and was like, vegans are the new MLs/stalinists/anarchists/proto-anti-natural-primitivist or whatever.
The whole vegan pet abuse thing caused a lot of bad blood over a few bad actors. But you’re always going to have a few bad actors virtue signaling.
I agree, the lemmy.world admins caused bad blood and handled it poorly when proven wrong. I still run into people parroting the admin’s side of vegan cat drama … even when it was proven wrong. I just can’t anymore lmao.
Because there is a subset of vegans who are vocal about their perceived moral superiority due to their diet. Sadly these are the loudest voices many people hear and they frequently aren’t nice people.
Most vegans aren’t attacking people over their dietary choices so non-vegans only tend to see the aggressive folks.
You really, really need to go out your way to find those loud moral superior vegans. Like, look for them, search their communities specifically.
However, there is no shortage of comment from people who apparently just can’t stop seeing angry vegans everywhere and that’s why, those commenters conclude, it’s normal and good to continue with constant anti-veran rhetoric. Because those vegans, you see, are everywhere.
I usually use the “all” feed of Lemmy and have blocked a few of the vegan communities just because of how toxic many of the posts were. This is all from stumbling across them and never seeking them out. It’s really sad because seeing things like vegan recipes and food substitute ideas is something I’d love in my feed.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/36989156/16449217
It was A LOT more common when I was in high school in the 1990s. I have only ever seen it online or in vegan punk circles (many of whom have other issues)
If you have problem with this kind of response to an explicitly vegan bashing post, then you just have a problem with vegans, and not an aversion of their percieved vocal superiority.
And that’s a you problem.
you said I really had to go out of my way to find them, but they were in this thread.
If you classify the mild response to a veganbashing comment as a preachy moral superiority one, your problem is actually with them existing, and you just trying to normalwash your problem
I have no problem with them existing. I’m just pointing out you were wrong.
Nah, they used to be more common a while back. I think the community chilled out a bit as too many saw that militant vegan and wanted to not be that vegan
This is one of the biggest problems with literally everything. People see the loud assholes and assume everyone is like that.
So many people think that there are folks out there abusing the pittance they get from welfare because they saw a few people wasting their food stamps. When in reality most people on welfare aren’t out and about to be seen, they’re at home (if they have a home) trying to stretch their dollars.
People extrapolate and generalize far too easily.
Anti-welfare rhetoric was a deliberate propaganda campaign. That’s extensively documented, all of that was the result of Reagans deliberate actions.
In this, I assume, it is also very similar to a perpetual vegan bashings.
No, it was a thing that a bunch if people experienced IRL. In my case it was decades ago in high school or in vegan punk circles (many of those have significant problens with theor sense of superiority to begin with).
You experienced a lot of punk vegans in vegan punk circles, huh? Who would’ve thunk
!carnivore@lemm.ee is essentially reactionary.
Really cringe shit.
Very true, but it also doesn’t help ridiculing and banning people from vegan communities who want to go more vegan, but aren’t there yet. There’s some serious gatekeeping going on and it unfortunately makes people give up becoming vegan in defiance.
Lemmy is pretty anti-vegan (and the world is as well), hence this meme being highly upvoted. That causes vegan communities to only want vegans in their spaces so they don’t have to deal with trolls. I know I’ve run into people multiple times who just want to ask questions in these spaces but then it just turns into a troll. I remember someone opening a space meant for vegans who aren’t assholes supposedly, and when I looked in it, it had people describing hunting in gory detail and how important hunting is to them and how they will not ever give up hunting. How is that supposed to be welcoming to vegans? It’s not, it’s just another space for carnism.
If you want to go vegan, online strangers will not stop you no matter how shitty you think they are being to you. You really going to kill animals because someone was mean to you after you already decided it was wrong to do so? It doesn’t matter how you approach the subject, people just don’t give a shit. Most people are lost causes, they will blame anything for why they won’t make the change. I’ve been nice and get told BS anyway. It’s not the way vegans communicate, but it is a convenient excuse for carnists to continue consuming animal products.
This meme isn’t anti vegan…
Edit: Actually, I’ll elaborate on my thoughts since I made it. I completely agree that vegan/vegetarian is the morally superior position. Even though we evolved to eat meat we can and should choose to live in a way that causes as little harm to nature as possible. That being said I do eat meat. There are a lot of things I would like to improve about myself and that’s just not one I am currently prioritizing.
The point of this meme is that instead of fighting our society would be much better if we worked together on common goals. There are degrees of harm and factory farming is SO much worse for animals than traditional farming. If we all worked together we could build a society with less meat consumption overall and where farm animals are treated better. And everyone would be happier for it.
It reads as anti-vegan to me because it’s another variation of “if vegans were nicer, everyone would eat less meat and become vegan.” People know about factory farming but do not care, some leftists will even defend it while claiming to be “neutral” on the subject. Vegans are nice in general, that’s not why they are hated. They are hated because they expose a truth about society and people do not like what that truth says about themselves.
Also lower row vegan is a dumb caricature. Veganism is about reducing harm, a vegan would not want a person to starve to death. Which families are starving to death because of eggs? It just reads like someone who is anti-vegan made this. Exasperated vegans don’t understand how to convince your average meat-eater that animal lives have value the way a human life has value, that factory farming contributes to destroying the environment, and that eating a plant based diet can be healthy. Because the reaction they usually get is some variation of lower row meat-eater, no matter how nice they are about, or what facts they use, or any emotions they try to appeal to. You cannot work together when meat-eaters will fight tooth and nail so they do not have to give up their meat.
i think you’re conflating veganism with utilitarianism
Search lemmy for “vegan reducing harm.” Then search the broad internet for the same thing. You’ll find that this is a common ethos in veganism. I suggest going to the vegan communities (keep in mind you are not welcome in some due to you being a carnist, read the sidebar) and talk to the vegans there. Ask them about harm reduction. You might want to do the debatebro thing, but you might learn more just listening.
i’ve read singer. while many are taken in by his utilitarian argument for veganism, veganism predates its utiltarian defense, and is harm-agnostic.
Again, ask vegans. Your comments show a lack of understanding them which is why I suggested this.
I recognized the point OP was going for, but by singling out veganism (and with such a tired stereotype), the tone changes.
I wonder if adding another two examples (because rule of 3), along with the vegan/meat-eater scenario (or replacing it), might help convey the intent more clearly. It would remove the spotlight from one particular group (which, as we all know, is already heavily targeted with undue hate), and would make it more obvious that the message is “we’re all in this together.”
It would take restructuring the whole comic, unfortunately, but it could work.
Lemmy has a loud and angry vegan community.
The reasonable folks among us are turned off by all of yall (the loud and angry folks, and those coming out of the woodwork to argue with vegan people), but it’s hard to be swayed to veganism when that’s the miasma.
Why would someone being an asshole to you prevent you from eating animals? That doesn’t make sense.
Human psychology.
Nearly every online platform is like this, about almost every subject. Like I said, some people arguing with trolls online should not affect you becoming vegan. You might think the community has poor moderation and not want to join it, but why would it affect whether you contribute to farm animals dying or not? That’s why I think it is just a convenient excuse to deflect.
You think it is inherently true that your belief is right.
Not everyone does.
The vitriol doesn’t convince the people.
That’s the point I’m making.
I think this is something we will have to agree to disagree about, then.
I don’t believe tone policing actually helps convince people of social causes. You can be nice and sweet and still get spat on. That is the reality.
You’re disagreeing with what we know about human nature, so do you but that’s also on you.
Those trolls are just stupid tbh. They probably expect vegans to react shocked or something. It’s definitely okay to ban those.
I think that even though some people find excuses to not become vegan, it shows they know it is the right thing to do and I think it’s possible to give them easy vegan recipes and tips to get them as close to veganism as possible and that would still be an improvement and a win for vegans.
I agree but someone has to come to a vegan for the recipes. You cannot force someone to change. I can give someone a recipe but unless they asked for it, it is ignored in my experience. You can bring vegan food to a gathering and you might get some acknowledgment that it tastes good, but it does not cause anyone to reconsider their viewpoints. You assume people are more open-minded and will actually care, I am saying those people do exist but are not the norm.
Yeah I was in a vegan community cheering people on for being stronger than me. Mentioned that I like meat a lot but I’m trying to cut back. Comment deleted.
This was removed for:
So I’ll tell you my thoughts. You posted gore in detail, for this I would report your comment and want it removed. I don’t want to hear about animal organs and how tasty you think they are in a vegan community. You said said organs would pleasantly surprise people (vegans). I mean what did you expect? This particular community doesn’t do the whole back patting because you are cutting down (which you did not mention), other communities would ban you because you weren’t vegan, so you should always read the sidebar.
There were meat-eaters who posted in a better way:
Notice the difference? There is a time and place.
Fair enough.
What do you expect? You want us to congratulate you for only sometimes not murdering animals? Good job! 👏
See there’s literally nothing you’re doing here except talking shit. Say I was a more weak minded person, your comment might make me think vegans are all assholes.